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Seems CA is getting more strict and charging higher fines with some new laws. This includes a noise/modified exhaust law that carries a $1000 fine.

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Wonder why so many people are moving out of Calif ??
JS27

Now New York will have to follow suit!!!!  :pullinghair: They have to pay there bills some how.!!!!!!!!!   :o

"subjective" that's a great word.

Quote from: RUNCHARGER on January 08, 2019, 07:00:27 AM
"subjective" that's a great word.

Yup same thing here..... get me outta here!  :headbang:

California sucks! 

I'm in Colorado and now their politics are moving here.  It's beginning the ruin of this great state.

That kind of language is very frightening because it is so open to interpretation.  Run Californians ... RUN!   :bricks:

Quote from: cuda hunter on January 08, 2019, 07:36:59 AM
California sucks! 

I'm in Colorado and now their politics are moving here.  It's beginning the ruin of this great state.

I'm a Californian and I find your statement offensive!

Ok, not really as I also agree this state is soooo sad with the direction it has gone.  :bricks:

Case in point for moving out.
4 of my immediate family are now in Ok, Washington and Oregon. No other family remains.
2 other semi extended families moved in and then left state within 3 years.
All my High school friends (80s) now reside in other states. Oregon, Texas, Colorado, Oklahoma,  etc...

I am the only one who has remained as I have owned my home now for 23 years. Leaving was never really considered until now with this new governor that makes Jerry look like a conservative... And a super majority that will allow an entire agenda to be pushed thru that I expect will push even more business out.

The new CA laws seem clear to me. As far as noisy mufflers go, H-D owners are the main offenders. I have owned a Harley for 25 years. My current H-D has Vance & Hines staggered pipes. It has the big bore kit with lumpy 510 twin-cam, Screaming Eagle big valve heads and my neighbors hate it in the morning when I fire it up. On the hwy it is quite at cruising speeds and the CHP's leave me alone. If I jump on it at 60 mph it will BARK!

One out of five neighbors have limo 80% deep tint on their side windows...cops can't tell if they have a gun or drinking while driving.

We have a huge problem with soccer mom's driving while on their cell phones, and driver's slowing down on the freeway when on their cell phone.

So I don't have a problem with the new legislation. The fines/penalties are a bit steep tho.

Tall, close buildings and obnoxious exhausts do not mix. Downtown Boise needs this ordinance too. H-Ds are the worst offenders. Living in a corner house: I can hear more exhausts than average.

What's the problem, other than the subjective nature of it? If I didn't drive with mufflers, I would expect to get pulled over and cited. Maybe Flowmaster 40 owners are starting to sweat...good! :)

This I agree. :bigthumb:

I'd be much "happier" with a decibel limit, most places use 100 as the limit. At least then whether you like/agree with the law at least you have a real measurable  limit. Having a police officer using "his discretion"  to have his way with you and feed his/her ego is not any sort of justice/fair and just breeds animosity on all sides . Not a good law for anyone IMO 
Sure if you don't actually have a muffler on there and have straight pipes , yup you deserve a ticket. But saying that I have run catalytic converter  with no mufflers and it was pretty quiet.
With window tint around here law enforcement actual have a meter that measures how much light goes thru.  Again like it or not, its an actual measurable limit that EVERYONE  can abide by and not have the good police officers being the bad guys and paramilitary tax collectors.  Laws that encourage corruption are bad laws period!

Video is on YouTube

 :wrenching: Gotta love California; then they wonder why people are leaving and tourism is down  :thinking:

I would guess no more T-buckets??  :notsure:  As for H-D's... well they're made here so .... Looks like it's all about the $$$... no surprise there.  But we do have a new DEM governor ... can't wait to see what's gonna roll down hill..  :stop:

 :thinking: Hum.... Wonder what other bright ideas do the establishment Dems from California can come up with to further separate themselves from the rest of the Country??? :looney:

I was born in Ca. and have spent all my 50 years here. Thankfully I've traveled much of the country so I get to see what the rest of it is like outside the oppressed state. California is a toilet. It wasn't always that way but it sure is now. I can't see it ever getting better. It's just been moving in the wrong direction for too long. The people here have become so oblivious to what is happening. I know people at work that get teary eyed with joy with new regulations or taxes get passed. I'm not joking. They are truly brainwashed and it's become a voting majority of brainwashed idiots, not just a select few.

The good news is I have been careful in my retirement planning most my adult life and I get to retire in two years and move out. We have been scoping out great places for the past ten years so it's all coming into focus. All our family is on the other side of the country. I'm going to hunt cars and spend my days screwing around in my shop drinking beer.

California has become a prison and I'm happy to sell my home to make room for someone who really wants to stay here.

Quote from: Brads70 on January 08, 2019, 07:17:55 AM

Quote from: RUNCHARGER on January 08, 2019, 07:00:27 AM
"subjective" that's a great word.

Yup same thing here..... get me outta here!  :headbang:

Where you wanna go? California?  :dunno:

It used to be 95 db is the limit and most CHPs carries a db meter. Not sure about local cops. Both of my Challengers have aftermarket exhaust systems. When I upgraded my 2012 SRT8, I purposely picked the street version catback that retains the resonators with mufflers at the back. It was fairly mild when new. Now with the glass packing settled down, it gets loud when I mesh the pedal to the floor. It is still fairly quiet during cruising and at idle. My 73 is louder with the headers. I might need to look into getting quieter mufflers. It has the Super Turbos from TTI now.

The thing is I do not want to move out of CA. I cannot take the cold and the heat too well. Just need to be careful driving around and hope the cops don't bother the older folks too much. I think the cops will be out in force the first few months of this new laws and would be pressured to show enforcement. I hope it dies down after awhile and they go back to their normal routine. It is all about collecting money. They should now go after the Ferraris and Lambos with their million dollars sound if they can catch them.

Quote from: dodj on January 08, 2019, 12:42:28 PM

Quote from: Brads70 on January 08, 2019, 07:17:55 AM

Quote from: RUNCHARGER on January 08, 2019, 07:00:27 AM
"subjective" that's a great word.

Yup same thing here..... get me outta here!  :headbang:

Where you wanna go? California?  :dunno:

:haha:  Umm, NO Jumping from one sinking socialist ship to another wouldn't be wise.  Although its on my bucket list to explore/visit

Sounds like a great place to live....

Quote from: 1Burgfish on January 08, 2019, 12:12:06 PM
:thinking: Hum.... Wonder what other bright ideas do the establishment Dems from California can come up with to further separate themselves from the rest of the Country??? :looney:

Already did. On govs first day he signed that state will provide insurance to every child here regardless of legal status.
Man I could rant forever on this subject but will end my input here. Time for car talk again...
Mike.

Well much like Chicago somebody has to pay for all the debacles and pensions that will go belly up otherwise. I cannot believe that Chicago has a tax on internet usage and I think they have one coming out for texting. WTF?

Anyway, yeah I have lived most of my life in CA (age 5 onward) and it certainly has gone downhill. There are too many folks who want to wrap their arms around the world but have the budget for a can of soda at best. So here we are at 360 Billion dollars in Pension shortfalls and the fun just keeps on coming! Not to talk about budget shortfalls at all.

Btw, one of my best friends just moved to Nevada and I somewhat envy him.

CA governor just declared the entire state a "sanctuary" for illegals.
Going to need to issue a bunch of those $1000 tickets for texting to pay for that....

Seriously, when is an earthquake going to drop that thing into the ocean. 

As per the video above loud pipes cause deaths. They make you race as well!

It all starts with the self righteous Hollywood bunch.

 :wrenching: I thought a lot of them folks were going to leave the Country in 2016 after the elections if their candidate didn't win :thinking: the planes were sitting on the tarmac and nobody showed up!!!! What's up with that :verymad:

Quote from: 1Burgfish on January 09, 2019, 09:52:20 AM
:wrenching: I thought a lot of them folks were going to leave the Country in 2016 after the elections if their candidate didn't win :thinking: the planes were sitting on the tarmac and nobody showed up!!!! What's up with that :verymad:

:iagree:  :twothumbsup:

Quote from: Katfish on January 08, 2019, 04:05:33 PM
CA governor just declared the entire state a "sanctuary" for illegals.
Going to need to issue a bunch of those $1000 tickets for texting to pay for that....

I have a theory on that...for many years, they have talked about getting rid of what we call proposition 13 which pins our property tax at 1 percent of purchase price and doesn't allow it to go up more than a small amount year to year. There are elderly people living in 800k homes paying 2k a year but if the sell, the new buyer pays 8k. Still a bargain if you look at some areas of the country that pay 2-3 percent. Our last governor openly spoke about how prop 13 hurts the government.

I think they will get the medical insurance thing passed and raise sales tax to pay for it initially (which they said they planned to do). When it turns out not to be enough, they will attack the prop 13 issue again and claim it's the only way to get the money. They have already been trying to chip away at the little protections of prop 13 for years but voters keep rejecting it. Once they force medical insurance spending upon us, voters will be forced to accept the loss of prop 13 to pay for the glorious and righteous new benefit. After all, think of the children. (That particular line never gets old as we vote in new taxes and bonds for schools each and every cycle) Voters will feel guilty and vote for the repeal of prop 13 because after all, it's only fair that everyone pay their fair share.

We just had a new prop in our last election regarding allowing the elderly to keep their low tax rate if they move. While it was accepted by voters, I personally heard a lot of grumbling about how the elderly are cheap for not wanting to pay their fair share and also how most elderly are rich after a lifetime of saving and can easily afford to pay higher taxes. I've wanted over the decades how they do it. They sew seeds of discontent and let people chew on it for a couple years while they keep whispering how unfair something is. Eventually the voters believe it and do what they are told.

You forgot the part that there are always more renters than homeowners. So which way do you think the votes are going? This is from first hand experience living in San Francisco for 35 years. SF is the most disgusted city in all of California in terms of government and politics. So glad I moved out.

 :wrenching: Thank you Nancy,Maxine,Chucky,Schiff,Moonbeam

Quote from: HP_Cuda on January 08, 2019, 02:58:14 PM

Well much like Chicago somebody has to pay for all the debacles and pensions that will go belly up otherwise. I cannot believe that Chicago has a tax on internet usage and I think they have one coming out for texting.

No tax on texting around here, I thought it was CA that was floating that idea?
And I don't think they have a specific tax on Internet beyond the tax on cable and telephone plans.
I live in the burbs so I don't know for sure.
But all in all I sympathize, this area is becoming unlivable too.  Taxes are getting out of control, on top of a hair below 5% income tax, I pay around 10% sales tax.  I work in a neighboring county so shop there usually where sales taxes are "only" 8%. Property taxes on my 1200 sq ft (not including the basement) house are around $6000 a year! Going up every year even though home values never recovered from 2008 and seem to be going down now. Like I said before, out of control.
With a new democrat governor coming in, there is talk of a 20-30c a gallon gas tax being an early move because it "is only fair". It's going to get a lot worse soon.
I've lived in the area my whole life, and now can't wait to move.  So do a lot of people I know. But I don't know if there is much of a market for my house now.
You guys in CA may not have it as bad as Chicago area residents?

Excellent point.

Yeah we pay about 3.50 or so out here. Went to Nashville last week and it was a full dollar per gallon cheaper. And registration runs about $80 I'm told regardless of vehicle age or value. Sure beats the $500 per car I pay now.

My Brother-in -law lives in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia. Near Long Beach. Moved there 35+ years ago. He's leaving  this year and moving to Idaho. Says it's turned into a real Sh-hole.
My neighbor is from San Diego. She went there last year to visit her mother and was mugged in broad daylight. She couldn't believe what it turned into.

You couldn't pay me enough to go there. Sorry to all who live there but it ain't what it used to be. I was there 45 years ago and it was truly a beautiful state. Not any more.

Quote from: JH27N0B on January 09, 2019, 04:21:04 PM

Quote from: HP_Cuda on January 08, 2019, 02:58:14 PM

Well much like Chicago somebody has to pay for all the debacles and pensions that will go belly up otherwise. I cannot believe that Chicago has a tax on internet usage and I think they have one coming out for texting.

No tax on texting around here, I thought it was CA that was floating that idea?
And I don't think they have a specific tax on Internet beyond the tax on cable and telephone plans.
I live in the burbs so I don't know for sure.
But all in all I sympathize, this area is becoming unlivable too.  Taxes are getting out of control, on top of a hair below 5% income tax, I pay around 10% sales tax.  I work in a neighboring county so shop there usually where sales taxes are "only" 8%. Property taxes on my 1200 sq ft (not including the basement) house are around $6000 a year! Going up every year even though home values never recovered from 2008 and seem to be going down now. Like I said before, out of control.
With a new democrat governor coming in, there is talk of a 20-30c a gallon gas tax being an early move because it "is only fair". It's going to get a lot worse soon.
I've lived in the area my whole life, and now can't wait to move.  So do a lot of people I know. But I don't know if there is much of a market for my house now.
You guys in CA may not have it as bad as Chicago area residents?

I know more than one who's come my way (north of the border). Altho with the new Dem we have as gov... we may not be far behind

I love it here. Ya just gotta be able to take the rain with the sunshine.Speaking of sunshine, it was 63 degrees here today and my lovely friend up the street was wearing her denim short-shorts while mowing her turf. The temperate climate here will spoil you to the point you are willing to put up with the Sacramento BS. Also, a big bonus here is all the huge car shows from Monterey Bay to Sacramento eight straight months out of the year. It is bitter sweet living here and I learned a long time ago how to work it to my advantage.  :unitedstates:

Yes it was California that proposed taxing texting. The federal communication killed that idea quick. Federal control not state.
Prop 13 is definately a bonus for people who own for lengthy times. 23 years in my house. What the gov sees is all the lost tax revenue.  What is not looked at is prop 13 is the reason our property values are as high as they are. My house now is over 600k. 1400 sq ft. Eliminate prop 13 and tax the masses at value. The overall values will tank and believed revenue increase will be negated.

Only so much money to go around. Especially when most of the exodus is the higher tax bracket people. All being replaced with tax burden people.

As it stands I believe it is something like 10% of the population pays 90% of the state taxes.

Mike.

We do have another wonderful thing to look forward to. I don't have all the details yet but apparently the state just created some sort of carbon tax scheme whereby a company called "Clean Power Aaliance" will be working with Edison for power distribution and revenue collection. It's supposed to be sort sort of deal to "encourage " greener energy use. The cities vote on which of the three green plans they want and the CPA collects the extra money to that cause along with the power bill each month. I scanned through it very briefly and it ringed of Enron on steroids. Can't wait until that mess comes to my town...

 :wrenching: And the hits keep coming!!! :deadhorse:

All this in a state that already has the heaviest tax burden in the country...

I read an interesting analysis on taxation that questioned "at what level of income does the tax burden no longer benefit you"? At a certain $$$ level you keep paying in more in but are no longer getting anything in returns for your investment.
We all drive the same roads and pay for same services.

Waiting for an exodus announcement from tech companies in silicon valley. Only takes 1 and then state is insolvent again...

Perhaps Apple as they will need cash influx injection soon.

The yellow vest movement needs to be starting here in Ca soon.

Governor Brown's legacy is a  $6.1 BILLION budget surplus when he left office last week. Most of this money came from the gas tax. In 2018, California's economy surpassed that of the United Kingdom to become the 5th largest economy in the world. This attracts a lot of talent and money. There are far more people moving to California than leaving. People are coming here to join the parade, or as my brother in Huntington Beach says "Chasing the rainbow."

New propositions just passed to raise more gas tax and bridge tolls to collect more to pay for road improvements and rapid transits even with tax surplus from Brown. The toll roads prevalent in SCal is coming to NCal. Everything is just great and what a pretty picture.

 :wrenching:  :sorry:

And the "homeless" population has increased 40% in the last 5 or so years.
Chasing the rainbow of increased free handouts.

 :wrenching: You forgot the new undocumented migrants added to the rolls with the homeless...

Dude we have Surfing, oh schools last reported we are 50th, not bad out of 57?

Hmmmmm. Up here in Northern Ontario Canada all we hear is it never rains in 'Sunny California" and everything is awesome there. Doesn't sound awesome from those of you living there?
From those of you living there, where would a better place be? I'm knee deep in snow at the moment....lol.

Quote from: dodj on January 10, 2019, 03:37:47 PM
Hmmmmm.
From those of you living there, where would a better place be? I'm knee deep in snow at the moment....lol.

Yup.....that's what our family is trying to figure out right now. We are currently looking at Idaho, but the temperature high there is our low here. And I'm not getting any younger to deal with a whole bunch of snow and or ice. Though I'm told the snow season is very short  :notsure: My dad left Canada, California had it going on, now not so much.

So much hate for those who dont live here.   :pokeeye:

I have only lived here 15 years.  My 2-5 year plan is to move to Northeastern Washington or North Idaho (where I grew up) and freeze our butts off.  I love snowmobiling and snowboarding so I dont mind winters.  Hopefully my wife doesnt leave me.  :rofl:

Its too crowded and expensive for my taste here.  It has been a great place to live and I do love my job so its tough to leave.

I would love to raise my kids on 10 acres in the forest so its about time to  :stayinlane:

Quote from: nsmall on January 10, 2019, 04:49:59 PM
I would love to raise my kids on 10 acres in the forest so its about time to  :stayinlane:

I'm sitting on 20 acres of forest. It's a great place IMO. I'm sure there are other great places though. Knowing nothing about  California, other than it never rains there, I am surprised at the comments residents there have made. Not saying it not true, I don't know, but I thought it was one of the better places to live in North America. Along with Florida.  :dunno:

Quote from: dodj on January 10, 2019, 03:37:47 PM
Hmmmmm. Up here in Northern Ontario Canada all we hear is it never rains in 'Sunny California" and everything is awesome there. Doesn't sound awesome from those of you living there?
From those of you living there, where would a better place be? I'm knee deep in snow at the moment....lol.

I just got back from Nashville last week and it was amazing. The low was around 42 which was exactly what it was at home. Granted it gets colder in February but I can live with mid 20s. Beats the yearly firestorms and quarterly 70 mph sustained Santa Ana winds.

I live 1/2 mile from the gateway to the SF Bay Area Delta. It rains here about 4 months a year. Today, we have a slight drizzle with tule fog all day. SOCAL is a bit too dry for me. Here is a picture I took ten months ago looking out the front window. The SF Bay Area has micro climates. Danville is wetter than most cities. SF is a whole lot cooler! San Jose is inundated with smog. I lived in Oakland for four years and the weather there is close to perfect. My son lives in Humboldt County and he said it rains too much up there. I have friends who would never consider leaving the SF Bay Area.

About Prop 13: I can tell you my Mom makes out being under Prop 13 as of 1978 but everyone else then picks up the tab. I remember the last place I had I was paying over 10k a year just in property taxes so that didn't make me very happy. Prop 13 came about because of high inflation in the 70's but then was fairly tame since.

Living in CA has it's pluses and minuses:
1) Weather - it has been nice up till say about 7 years ago when every friggin year was hotter than the last. Makes me feel like living in Vegas full time, not to mention the water worry all the time and the huge fines for watering your lawn.
2) A decent amount of high paying jobs - although this is true you also have to figure in the higher prices for everything else. Gas, Housing, Food, etc. It's like they know you are fish in a barrel and treat you accordingly.
3) High Density housing and traffic - LA is a joke for traffic and up here in the Bay Area it's gotten worse to the point where you don't want to leave work till after 7pm. Basically city councils line their pockets with developer money and build 5+ story high density housing and claim there is a housing shortage and charge and arm and a leg. It's just downright stupid.

So in a nutshell - I want to move somewhere where I cannot see my neighbor for 2+ miles and I own many acres, lower cost of living, slower pace of life, and an area which I enjoy. Not too much to ask eh?

Quote from: IRON MAN on January 10, 2019, 10:35:27 AM
Governor Brown's legacy is a  $6.1 BILLION budget surplus when he left office last week. Most of this money came from the gas tax. In 2018, California's economy surpassed that of the United Kingdom to become the 5th largest economy in the world. This attracts a lot of talent and money. There are far more people moving to California than leaving. People are coming here to join the parade, or as my brother in Huntington Beach says "Chasing the rainbow."

Quote from: HP_Cuda on January 10, 2019, 06:15:36 PM

About Prop 13: I can tell you my Mom makes out being under Prop 13 as of 1978 but everyone else then picks up the tab. I remember the last place I had I was paying over 10k a year just in property taxes so that didn't make me very happy. Prop 13 came about because of high inflation in the 70's but then was fairly tame since.

Quote

This is the kind of thinking the Ca. government wants. Prop 13 helps all homeowners and people need to understand it fully before we toss it away.

Prop 13 has several components to it but the biggie is that it sets tax at 1% of purchase price and can only go up a tiny amount each year. This allows people to set long term budgets.

Example: Bought my first house for $175k and the tax was around 2k per year after all the stupid little add on taxes that voters keep approving (mostly school bonds). After living there for ten years, I sold the hous for 450k but my taxes was only about $2300.

I then bought another house for $440k and my taxes were around $5k annually. I've been here for 15 years now. When the market crashed, my taxes went lower for many years. Now that the market has recovered, my house is worth far more than $440k but my taxes are only a little bit higher than when I first bought it.

Without prop 13, they can reassess your house each year and you get a surprise tax bill. Imagine trying to budget getting,ids through college and find that your house goes up in value so your taxes keep jumping up each year. True that elderly benefit most but what's the harm in that? So many are on fixed incomes and couldn't afford to retire if their taxes kept going up. My parents lived in a nice home in Jacksonville for years. They got a new football team and the city jacked up everyone's prop tax to pay for the new stadium. My parents were eventually forced to move away because their taxes went from 4K to over 10k in just a few short years.

A 10k prop tax bill comes from buying a 1.1 million dollar house. Without prop 13, a 2% prop tax rate like many other states have would get you a yearly tax bill over 20k. Don't be too quick to wish prop 13 away.

As far as the rest of us picking up the tab, that depends on how you look at it. If you have a runaway government that wants to increase spending to pay for all its programs, then I guess everyone has to pony up and pay more. That would include those damned old people who are breathing our air and taking up space. Retired folks probably have the crazy viewpoint that they worked hard all their lives and just want to spend the rest of their days living in the same home they always have without being told that they aren't doing enough for the rest of society.

All your other points are spot on. I'm glad people love it here. I want one of them to pay me top dollar for my house when I move out of state.

Don't know how you guys pay for it.
I live in FL, a few yrs ago company decided to move our dept to CA.
VP came in to sell us on the move, when 1 guy mentioned it would cost 50% more to have the same size house and standard of living, he just smiled and said "the weather is awesome".
Of the 100 offered the 10% raise to go, only 5 went.
3 yrs later, 4 of those have moved back.

Quote from: Katfish on January 10, 2019, 08:03:12 PM
Don't know how you guys pay for it.
I live in FL, a few yrs ago company decided to move our dept to CA.
VP came in to sell us on the move, when 1 guy mentioned it would cost 50% more to have the same size house and standard of living, he just smiled and said "the weather is awesome".
Of the 100 offered the 10% raise to go, only 5 went.
3 yrs later, 4 of those have moved back.

This gave me a good laugh...so true.  I tell people here in Ca. that we plan to leave here and the only response I EVER hear is, "but the weather is so good here". I have never heard any other reason to stay.

I have known at least 50 co-workers who have retired and left the state. In each case, everyone at work said they will back eventually because the weather is simply too good hear. After 28 years, only one person has ever returned and he did so only because most his family is here and his wife threatened divorce if he didn't. He still hates it here.

I have been comparing costs here vs. Tennessee and I'm going to save a major boatload of money every month once we leave. Enough for me to buy lots of plane tickets to Ca. so I can take in the incredible weather.

To put in perspective of here v/s anywhere.
It doesn't seem to matter where you go.

Mom to Washington St.
Brother to Washington St.
Sister to Washington St. Moved at different time.
Brother (another) to Oklahoma.
Cousin to Wisconsin
Aunt to Wisconsin
Friends to Oregon, Arizona, Nevada,Texas, Colorado, Wisconsin.

ALL took the leap and none would ever consider returning.

Under Prop 13 they did reassess my home value every year and Mr. Sloan loved asking me for more $$$ every year.

So if you moved into a house and paid 10k a year in Property Tax and your neighbor has been there awhile and pays only 3k a year wouldn't you be pissed? Same services, same police, same stupid crap and on top of it all they have the gall to ask for more $$$ to support(donate) the schools!! WTF?

I understand your side of the story and we can both agree this place is absolutely broken. I'm leaving within 2 years or so.

Quote from: 70 Challenger Lover on January 10, 2019, 07:24:46 PM

Quote from: HP_Cuda on January 10, 2019, 06:15:36 PM

About Prop 13: I can tell you my Mom makes out being under Prop 13 as of 1978 but everyone else then picks up the tab. I remember the last place I had I was paying over 10k a year just in property taxes so that didn't make me very happy. Prop 13 came about because of high inflation in the 70's but then was fairly tame since.

Quote

This is the kind of thinking the Ca. government wants. Prop 13 helps all homeowners and people need to understand it fully before we toss it away.

Prop 13 has several components to it but the biggie is that it sets tax at 1% of purchase price and can only go up a tiny amount each year. This allows people to set long term budgets.

Example: Bought my first house for $175k and the tax was around 2k per year after all the stupid little add on taxes that voters keep approving (mostly school bonds). After living there for ten years, I sold the hous for 450k but my taxes was only about $2300.

I then bought another house for $440k and my taxes were around $5k annually. I've been here for 15 years now. When the market crashed, my taxes went lower for many years. Now that the market has recovered, my house is worth far more than $440k but my taxes are only a little bit higher than when I first bought it.

Without prop 13, they can reassess your house each year and you get a surprise tax bill. Imagine trying to budget getting,ids through college and find that your house goes up in value so your taxes keep jumping up each year. True that elderly benefit most but what's the harm in that? So many are on fixed incomes and couldn't afford to retire if their taxes kept going up. My parents lived in a nice home in Jacksonville for years. They got a new football team and the city jacked up everyone's prop tax to pay for the new stadium. My parents were eventually forced to move away because their taxes went from 4K to over 10k in just a few short years.

A 10k prop tax bill comes from buying a 1.1 million dollar house. Without prop 13, a 2% prop tax rate like many other states have would get you a yearly tax bill over 20k. Don't be too quick to wish prop 13 away.

As far as the rest of us picking up the tab, that depends on how you look at it. If you have a runaway government that wants to increase spending to pay for all its programs, then I guess everyone has to pony up and pay more. That would include those damned old people who are breathing our air and taking up space. Retired folks probably have the crazy viewpoint that they worked hard all their lives and just want to spend the rest of their days living in the same home they always have without being told that they aren't doing enough for the rest of society.

All your other points are spot on. I'm glad people love it here. I want one of them to pay me top dollar for my house when I move out of state.

Like prop 13 or not. It was passed as a way to prevent people from being forced out of homes they had been in forever. Intent is not a "screw you" intent.

I now fall into the category that it was designed for.
Purchased my house 23 years ago for 200k. At that time when I was younger it was a stretch to get. Now house value is around 700k. This is a single story 1400 sq ft home. I am making more money than I ever have and can no longer afford to purchase the home I live in. If taxes went up with the same percentage as the home increases. I would be forced out of it. Just for what a tax bill would be. How is that fair? Do all the right things, save and purchase a home and then get hammered because of it...

Regardless of #13 the average length of ownership in this state is around 11 years. So every 11 years over half are repurchased at the higher and current value. It will not be the touted windfall expected. It will however, hurt the many established older people. Such as who I reluctantly am now.
As I stated earlier never considered leaving. Until now. It all will depend on my bottom line because financial recovery is no longer an option with only a few more years of working remaining.

Mike.

Quote from: YellowThumper on January 11, 2019, 01:34:34 PM
Like prop 13 or not. It was passed as a way to prevent people from being forced out of homes they had been in forever. Intent is not a "screw you" intent.

I now fall into the category that it was designed for.
Purchased my house 23 years ago for 200k. At that time when I was younger it was a stretch to get. Now house value is around 700k. This is a single story 1400 sq ft home. I am making more money than I ever have and can no longer afford to purchase the home I live in. If taxes went up with the same percentage as the home increases. I would be forced out of it. Just for what a tax bill would be. How is that fair? Do all the right things, save and purchase a home and then get hammered because of it...

Regardless of #13 the average length of ownership in this state is around 11 years. So every 11 years over half are repurchased at the higher and current value. It will not be the touted windfall expected. It will however, hurt the many established older people. Such as who I reluctantly am now.
As I stated earlier never considered leaving. Until now. It all will depend on my bottom line because financial recovery is no longer an option with only a few more years of working remaining.

Mike.

Yeah, I think getting rid of prop 13 would be like knifing all those who helped build the state in the back. It's not that much different than dumping social security. I know you've been paying into it your whole life but now that you are no longer contributing, there's no advantage to the rest of us allowing you to actually draw on it.

It could be a wonderful state. I remember when it once was. Politicians, fueled on by low information voters, has allowed them to create a Petrie dish experiment of socialism using the people's money. A lot of people want to come here but it would be interesting to see a breakdown of how many simply want to jump into the wagon versus actually help push it along.

Yes, CA the sh*thole state that pays more in taxes to the federal govt to help pay for the welfare southern states.

Quote from: HP_Cuda on January 11, 2019, 12:31:10 PM

Under Prop 13 they did reassess my home value every year and Mr. Sloan loved asking me for more $$$ every year.

So if you moved into a house and paid 10k a year in Property Tax and your neighbor has been there awhile and pays only 3k a year wouldn't you be pissed? Same services, same police, same stupid crap and on top of it all they have the gall to ask for more $$$ to support(donate) the schools!! WTF?

I understand your side of the story and we can both agree this place is absolutely broken. I'm leaving within 2 years or so.

Quote from: 70 Challenger Lover on January 10, 2019, 07:24:46 PM

Quote from: HP_Cuda on January 10, 2019, 06:15:36 PM

About Prop 13: I can tell you my Mom makes out being under Prop 13 as of 1978 but everyone else then picks up the tab. I remember the last place I had I was paying over 10k a year just in property taxes so that didn't make me very happy. Prop 13 came about because of high inflation in the 70's but then was fairly tame since.

Quote

This is the kind of thinking the Ca. government wants. Prop 13 helps all homeowners and people need to understand it fully before we toss it away.

Prop 13 has several components to it but the biggie is that it sets tax at 1% of purchase price and can only go up a tiny amount each year. This allows people to set long term budgets.

Example: Bought my first house for $175k and the tax was around 2k per year after all the stupid little add on taxes that voters keep approving (mostly school bonds). After living there for ten years, I sold the hous for 450k but my taxes was only about $2300.

I then bought another house for $440k and my taxes were around $5k annually. I've been here for 15 years now. When the market crashed, my taxes went lower for many years. Now that the market has recovered, my house is worth far more than $440k but my taxes are only a little bit higher than when I first bought it.

Without prop 13, they can reassess your house each year and you get a surprise tax bill. Imagine trying to budget getting,ids through college and find that your house goes up in value so your taxes keep jumping up each year. True that elderly benefit most but what's the harm in that? So many are on fixed incomes and couldn't afford to retire if their taxes kept going up. My parents lived in a nice home in Jacksonville for years. They got a new football team and the city jacked up everyone's prop tax to pay for the new stadium. My parents were eventually forced to move away because their taxes went from 4K to over 10k in just a few short years.

A 10k prop tax bill comes from buying a 1.1 million dollar house. Without prop 13, a 2% prop tax rate like many other states have would get you a yearly tax bill over 20k. Don't be too quick to wish prop 13 away.

As far as the rest of us picking up the tab, that depends on how you look at it. If you have a runaway government that wants to increase spending to pay for all its programs, then I guess everyone has to pony up and pay more. That would include those damned old people who are breathing our air and taking up space. Retired folks probably have the crazy viewpoint that they worked hard all their lives and just want to spend the rest of their days living in the same home they always have without being told that they aren't doing enough for the rest of society.

All your other points are spot on. I'm glad people love it here. I want one of them to pay me top dollar for my house when I move out of state.

I certainly agree this place is broken. Wasn't trying to rile you up. So many of us have California stories of how we got screwed over in some way. I just figure that it's in the best interest of the politicians who run this state to pit us against each other so we vote for whatever is put in front of us with the promise that it will make things better. Rather than wish the same misery on our neighbors, we should be voting these Jack asses out of office every few years since they are the ones who create all this mess. I too am looking forward to getting out of here.

Quote from: 70 Challenger Lover on January 09, 2019, 11:35:48 AM

Quote from: Katfish on January 08, 2019, 04:05:33 PM
CA governor just declared the entire state a "sanctuary" for illegals.
Going to need to issue a bunch of those $1000 tickets for texting to pay for that....

I have a theory on that...for many years, they have talked about getting rid of what we call proposition 13 which pins our property tax at 1 percent of purchase price and doesn't allow it to go up more than a small amount year to year. There are elderly people living in 800k homes paying 2k a year but if the sell, the new buyer pays 8k. Still a bargain if you look at some areas of the country that pay 2-3 percent. Our last governor openly spoke about how prop 13 hurts the government.

I think they will get the medical insurance thing passed and raise sales tax to pay for it initially (which they said they planned to do). When it turns out not to be enough, they will attack the prop 13 issue again and claim it's the only way to get the money. They have already been trying to chip away at the little protections of prop 13 for years but voters keep rejecting it. Once they force medical insurance spending upon us, voters will be forced to accept the loss of prop 13 to pay for the glorious and righteous new benefit. After all, think of the children. (That particular line never gets old as we vote in new taxes and bonds for schools each and every cycle) Voters will feel guilty and vote for the repeal of prop 13 because after all, it's only fair that everyone pay their fair share.

We just had a new prop in our last election regarding allowing the elderly to keep their low tax rate if they move. While it was accepted by voters, I personally heard a lot of grumbling about how the elderly are cheap for not wanting to pay their fair share and also how most elderly are rich after a lifetime of saving and can easily afford to pay higher taxes. I've wanted over the decades how they do it. They sew seeds of discontent and let people chew on it for a couple years while they keep whispering how unfair something is. Eventually the voters believe it and do what they are told.

I really doubt Prop 13 is going away.  It already has a ton of loopholes.  Anytime you pull a building permit they can reset your tax basis. 

Also 1% is the base.  People keep adding bond measures that add to that 1%.  My favorite is I pay for the Sacramento Area Flood Control Agency over $1000 a year.  They used eminent domain to take 2 acres from me so I see it as I get to pay to steal my own land. 

Quote from: Katfish on January 10, 2019, 08:03:12 PM
Don't know how you guys pay for it.
I live in FL, a few yrs ago company decided to move our dept to CA.
VP came in to sell us on the move, when 1 guy mentioned it would cost 50% more to have the same size house and standard of living, he just smiled and said "the weather is awesome".
Of the 100 offered the 10% raise to go, only 5 went.
3 yrs later, 4 of those have moved back.

10% is an insult. 

When I worked for Apple if you wanted to move from Sacramento to Cupertino (Bay Area) they would offer you 15% which was also an insult.  It needed to be 25%

For FL to CA you need somewhere between 50-100% of an increase. 

Quote from: IRON MAN on January 10, 2019, 05:43:28 PM
I live 1/2 mile from the gateway to the SF Bay Area Delta. It rains here about 4 months a year. Today, we have a slight drizzle with tule fog all day. SOCAL is a bit too dry for me. Here is a picture I took ten months ago looking out the front window. The SF Bay Area has micro climates. Danville is wetter than most cities. SF is a whole lot cooler! San Jose is inundated with smog. I lived in Oakland for four years and the weather there is close to perfect. My son lives in Humboldt County and he said it rains too much up there. I have friends who would never consider leaving the SF Bay Area.

LOL - I lived in Danville from 1975 to 1984.  When we moved there there was one traffic light.  Massive Contra Costa Sheriff presence along with the CHP.  As a teenager I was pulled over all the time. 

Quote from: ragtopdodge on January 11, 2019, 05:02:50 PM
Yes, CA the sh*thole state that pays more in taxes to the federal govt to help pay for the welfare southern states.

Yep we pay more to the Fed than we get yet we are some how terrible. 

We get a bad rap. 

However you can make an incredible amount of money in CA.  Yes some things are more expensive than other places; taxes, gas.  However if I pay $2.75 a gallon for gas yet I make 3X what I could in the Midwest I think I am winning. 

Wow Morty, that's just wrong. True there are some loopholes and I hope you are right about it never going away. I won't be here much longer anyway but I'd hate to see people get hosed over it.

I got a few of those special assessments on my bill as well. I live in Fillmore which is a poorer town than all the ones around it. We like that it is less crowded and houses are more affordable but the school system is failing bad. As a result, every bond measure pertaining to local Fillmore schools get passed by the voters who are largely renters and don't have to pay for the measures they vote for. So I get to pay about $800 per year extra for local schools but because they are so bad, I don't dare let my kid go there. So I pay for private school so she gets a decent education. Burns my ass that I pay so much in taxes for education but I feel compelled to pay for private school just so she gets a decent education that should be covered by my taxes. I could live in a neighboring town that has a better school system but my mortgage would be 300k higher along with an extra 3k plus in property taxes.

California is a trap for the middle class.

Quote from: 70 Challenger Lover on January 11, 2019, 09:51:33 PM
Wow Morty, that's just wrong. True there are some loopholes and I hope you are right about it never going away. I won't be here much longer anyway but I'd hate to see people get hosed over it.

I got a few of those special assessments on my bill as well. I live in Fillmore which is a poorer town than all the ones around it. We like that it is less crowded and houses are more affordable but the school system is failing bad. As a result, every bond measure pertaining to local Fillmore schools get passed by the voters who are largely renters and don't have to pay for the measures they vote for. So I get to pay about $800 per year extra for local schools but because they are so bad, I don't dare let my kid go there. So I pay for private school so she gets a decent education. Burns my ass that I pay so much in taxes for education but I feel compelled to pay for private school just so she gets a decent education that should be covered by my taxes. I could live in a neighboring town that has a better school system but my mortgage would be 300k higher along with an extra 3k plus in property taxes.

California is a trap for the middle class.

I bought my property 14 years ago for $567K - I now pay $11600 annually in property taxes.  I have no children but I pay plenty for school bonds.  I love this State but the Bond Measures are killing us. 

I replaced the siding and windows for my SF house about 15 years ago. For a $45k job, my permit fees was around $6500. For my current house, I did a 1400sf addition and my permit fee was only $4500, but I had to pay $7500 in school fees. They reassess the house and I got a huge jump in P tax. I called them to argue what it should be based on and the timing of the adjustment and got myself an additional bill of $2800. I should have kept my mouth shut and just swallow it. I got my W2 today and once again amazed how much taxes I am paying. By the time I factor all fed, state, local, SS, Medicare, p tax and sales tax (round to 10%), I be lucky to get about 45 cents or so for every dollar I make. These people are now talking about hiking the sales tax more.

Quote from: 7212Mopar on January 11, 2019, 11:11:30 PM
I replaced the siding and windows for my SF house about 15 years ago. For a $45k job, my permit fees was around $6500. For my current house, I did a 1400sf addition and my permit fee was only $4500, but I had to pay $7500 in school fees. They reassess the house and I got a huge jump in P tax. I called them to argue what it should be based on and the timing of the adjustment and got myself an additional bill of $2800. I should have kept my mouth shut and just swallow it. I got my W2 today and once again amazed how much taxes I am paying. By the time I factor all fed, state, local, SS, Medicare, p tax and sales tax (round to 10%), I be lucky to get about 45 cents or so for every dollar I make. These people are now talking about hiking the sales tax more.

I've had improvements like that but I've never pulled a permit for fear of exactly what you went through. Of course my improvements were things like new windows etc. where it wouldn't be a big deal down the road. Additions though and you kind of have to or no one wants to buy it with unpermitted additions.

Quote from: 7212Mopar on January 11, 2019, 11:11:30 PM
I replaced the siding and windows for my SF house about 15 years ago. For a $45k job, my permit fees was around $6500. For my current house, I did a 1400sf addition and my permit fee was only $4500, but I had to pay $7500 in school fees. They reassess the house and I got a huge jump in P tax. I called them to argue what it should be based on and the timing of the adjustment and got myself an additional bill of $2800. I should have kept my mouth shut and just swallow it. I got my W2 today and once again amazed how much taxes I am paying. By the time I factor all fed, state, local, SS, Medicare, p tax and sales tax (round to 10%), I be lucky to get about 45 cents or so for every dollar I make. These people are now talking about hiking the sales tax more.

When I built my shop, 9 months after I purchased this place, the added an additional $100K to the property value and sent me a bill for $1000.  After I got divorced 4 years ago they tried to revalue because of a "change in ownership"  - that time I had to go fight with them and I did get them to lower it but a pain in the butt. 

Quote from: Morty426 on January 12, 2019, 07:50:16 AM

Quote from: 7212Mopar on January 11, 2019, 11:11:30 PM
I replaced the siding and windows for my SF house about 15 years ago. For a $45k job, my permit fees was around $6500. For my current house, I did a 1400sf addition and my permit fee was only $4500, but I had to pay $7500 in school fees. They reassess the house and I got a huge jump in P tax. I called them to argue what it should be based on and the timing of the adjustment and got myself an additional bill of $2800. I should have kept my mouth shut and just swallow it. I got my W2 today and once again amazed how much taxes I am paying. By the time I factor all fed, state, local, SS, Medicare, p tax and sales tax (round to 10%), I be lucky to get about 45 cents or so for every dollar I make. These people are now talking about hiking the sales tax more.

When I built my shop, 9 months after I purchased this place, the added an additional $100K to the property value and sent me a bill for $1000.  After I got divorced 4 years ago they tried to revalue because of a "change in ownership"  - that time I had to go fight with them and I did get them to lower it but a pain in the butt.

Same sh!+ happened with my mother. Her brother was a cosigner on the house to be able to afford it. He never made any payments on it. All her. They reassessed it to current value based on ownership change. Reassessment was wrong but she did not have any $$$ means to fight it.
End result, she sold and moved to Washington. Never to come back.

!@#$%^&*

Found a solution for the newer Challenger to avoid getting nailed by the CA muffler law. You can lower your exhaust tone with this setup via a phone app. Still looking for solution for the E Bodies.

XFORCE Varex exhaust system
https://www.xforceusa.com/bolt-on-systems-for/dodge-challenger-2009-to-2011/cid-1063040165

This Youtube video was made on a Mustang. Looks like it is made in Canada.

California Native of 47 years. I remember when everything around "Silicon Valley" was farms and orchards, when it wasn't crowded, when highway 85 didn't exist, Highway 280/680 weren't crowded, when you went out at night you could drive without seeing another car on the highway.

Things have changed RADICALLY in the last 25 years. The demographics have changed dramatically due abuse of H1B Visa programs by the tech companies, lots of money from China / India buying up property in Fremont / Milpitas / Sunnyvale since the mid 90's. etc. This has driven housing costs through the roof. I do not begrudge these people from coming here, many of my friends came here on H1B status, but when I look at the demographic shift at my former employer, NetApp, I can see quite clearly what has happened. This is not healthy for our children as they are being priced out of work by foreign competition.

Trump campaigned on stopping the H1B abuse and now he is talking about H2B Visas in negotiations for the wall!!!!! SMH that guy. It doesn't matter who the politician is, they are all liars and will all give you a good railing, without lube or a kiss first.

This state has become an epic sh*thole, but I am stuck here for at least the next 13 years, at which point I hope to be getting out to Boise Idaho, Bozeman Montana or someplace else that still respects the constitution and the rights of the individual. Let's just hope this place holds together for that long...

Quote from: ledphoot on January 24, 2019, 03:18:14 PM
California Native of 47 years. I remember when everything around "Silicon Valley" was farms and orchards, when it wasn't crowded, when highway 85 didn't exist, Highway 280/680 weren't crowded, when you went out at night you could drive without seeing another car on the highway.

Things have changed RADICALLY in the last 25 years. The demographics have changed dramatically due abuse of H1B Visa programs by the tech companies, lots of money from China / India buying up property in Fremont / Milpitas / Sunnyvale since the mid 90's. etc. This has driven housing costs through the roof. I do not begrudge these people from coming here, many of my friends came here on H1B status, but when I look at the demographic shift at my former employer, NetApp, I can see quite clearly what has happened. This is not healthy for our children as they are being priced out of work by foreign competition.

Trump campaigned on stopping the H1B abuse and now he is talking about H2B Visas in negotiations for the wall!!!!! SMH that guy. It doesn't matter who the politician is, they are all liars and will all give you a good railing, without lube or a kiss first.

This state has become an epic sh*thole, but I am stuck here for at least the next 13 years, at which point I hope to be getting out to Boise Idaho, Bozeman Montana or someplace else that still respects the constitution and the rights of the individual. Let's just hope this place holds together for that long...

Wherever you go, make sure it is not a popular state for California retirees like Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Texas. All those states have changed dramatically with the migration of liberal Californians. As much as people in California talk about hating their politicians, they still have a warped idea of how things should be. The result is they take their twisted views with them to other states and start voting there based on that. Years later, all of these great states have become infected with California values brought in by California retirees. There are few states anymore that don't wrestle with the influx of shitty California values in one way or another.

The key is picking a state that is not only conservative but also off of everyone's radar as places to retire in. A few years ago, we decided we were going to Tennessee and our plan hasn't changed. Unfortunately, it is now becoming the new state millions want to retire to. Really sad...five years ago everyone said yuck when I mentioned it but now those same people are wanting to go there. I really don't want my fellow Californians to go there. I guess I can expect it to someday go down the tubes as well.

There's something about the Pacific Ocean that can wreak havoc with peoples common sense.

Quote from: 70 Challenger Lover on January 24, 2019, 04:17:19 PM

Quote from: ledphoot on January 24, 2019, 03:18:14 PM
California Native of 47 years. I remember when everything around "Silicon Valley" was farms and orchards, when it wasn't crowded, when highway 85 didn't exist, Highway 280/680 weren't crowded, when you went out at night you could drive without seeing another car on the highway.

Things have changed RADICALLY in the last 25 years. The demographics have changed dramatically due abuse of H1B Visa programs by the tech companies, lots of money from China / India buying up property in Fremont / Milpitas / Sunnyvale since the mid 90's. etc. This has driven housing costs through the roof. I do not begrudge these people from coming here, many of my friends came here on H1B status, but when I look at the demographic shift at my former employer, NetApp, I can see quite clearly what has happened. This is not healthy for our children as they are being priced out of work by foreign competition.

Trump campaigned on stopping the H1B abuse and now he is talking about H2B Visas in negotiations for the wall!!!!! SMH that guy. It doesn't matter who the politician is, they are all liars and will all give you a good railing, without lube or a kiss first.

This state has become an epic sh*thole, but I am stuck here for at least the next 13 years, at which point I hope to be getting out to Boise Idaho, Bozeman Montana or someplace else that still respects the constitution and the rights of the individual. Let's just hope this place holds together for that long...

Wherever you go, make sure it is not a popular state for California retirees like Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Texas. All those states have changed dramatically with the migration of liberal Californians. As much as people in California talk about hating their politicians, they still have a warped idea of how things should be. The result is they take their twisted views with them to other states and start voting there based on that. Years later, all of these great states have become infected with California values brought in by California retirees. There are few states anymore that don't wrestle with the influx of shitty California values in one way or another.

The key is picking a state that is not only conservative but also off of everyone's radar as places to retire in. A few years ago, we decided we were going to Tennessee and our plan hasn't changed. Unfortunately, it is now becoming the new state millions want to retire to. Really sad...five years ago everyone said yuck when I mentioned it but now those same people are wanting to go there. I really don't want my fellow Californians to go there. I guess I can expect it to someday go down the tubes as well.

Interesting point of view.  Living in Florida I have wondered about a similar issue.  We have an influx of people fleeing all kinds of economic and political oppression.  Yet they refuse to assimilate and try to bring the same failed political and social views they fled from.

I truly believe that. I know lots of them (family, friends, coworkers) who have left the state for greener pastures but refuse to adopt conservative values.

My wife's aunt in particular is the most hard core liberal I've ever even heard of. Makes Pelosi seem conservative by comparison. She moved to Georgia a few years ago because the taxes in Chicago were crushing them. When she got to Georgia, she immediately started campaigning in her area for more welfare for the poor. Partway into our conversation about her crusade, she commented about how she should have bought in the next county over because they had a much lower property tax rate. Of course I pointed out that she must swell with pride knowing her extra tax dollars are going to a noble cause. She actually had the balls to tell me that she shouldn't have to pay more because her government pension was only $80k a year but anyone making more than that should pay more in taxes. After all, it's only fair she stated. Apparently 80k is where she draws the line and she conveniently has not crossed it yet. I have discovered that all hard core liberals can be identified by the simple thought process of, "Everyone should pay more in taxes....except me because I am different."

Everyone wants change but no wants to change

they're like a scourge of locusts.... they never learn.

Many people from here in IL are fleeing to Tennessee.  They are calling them economic refugees now!
I don't know if they are bringing the plague of this state's entrenched corrupt political values with them.  But if I was a native tennessean, I'd be concerned.
My sights are on Indiana. It's difficult to pull up roots when you've lived in the same area for most or all of your life.  If I go to northwest Indiana I'll be near where I've been my life.  And Indiana is well located to attend many car events in IL, MI, OH etc.

Quote from: JH27N0B on January 24, 2019, 07:47:47 PM
Many people from here in IL are fleeing to Tennessee.  They are calling them economic refugees now!
I don't know if they are bringing the plague of this state's entrenched corrupt political values with them.  But if I was a native tennessean, I'd be concerned.
My sights are on Indiana. It's difficult to pull up roots when you've lived in the same area for most or all of your life.  If I go to northwest Indiana I'll be near where I've been my life.  And Indiana is well located to attend many car events in IL, MI, OH etc.

We have an office in Fort Wayne Indiana, seems like a nice enough place. Been there four times in the last year. The guys are telling me it's awfully cold right now :) Get a good jacket, snow blower and 4x4 :) People seem friendly enough.

Georgia has changed too since I moved here twenty years ago. They almost elected  a Marxist governor here. :Thud:

Very few places left that the disease hasn't reached. :crying:

Not quoting previous statements due to lengths. But do agree with most said.

As far as taxes are concerned. I read an interesting statement/question about them.
At what price and income level do the upper wealthy no longer get additional services they are paying for? We all use the same roads and infrastructure. It is unfortunate that success has been vilified as being evil. This mentality has been coming all the way from the president. Drive to success is what built this country.

Quote from: ledphoot on January 24, 2019, 03:18:14 PM
California Native of 47 years. I remember when everything around "Silicon Valley" was farms and orchards, when it wasn't crowded, when highway 85 didn't exist, Highway 280/680 weren't crowded, when you went out at night you could drive without seeing another car on the highway.

Things have changed RADICALLY in the last 25 years. The demographics have changed dramatically due abuse of H1B Visa programs by the tech companies, lots of money from China / India buying up property in Fremont / Milpitas / Sunnyvale since the mid 90's. etc. This has driven housing costs through the roof. I do not begrudge these people from coming here, many of my friends came here on H1B status, but when I look at the demographic shift at my former employer, NetApp, I can see quite clearly what has happened. This is not healthy for our children as they are being priced out of work by foreign competition.

Trump campaigned on stopping the H1B abuse and now he is talking about H2B Visas in negotiations for the wall!!!!! SMH that guy. It doesn't matter who the politician is, they are all liars and will all give you a good railing, without lube or a kiss first.

This state has become an epic sh*thole, but I am stuck here for at least the next 13 years, at which point I hope to be getting out to Boise Idaho, Bozeman Montana or someplace else that still respects the constitution and the rights of the individual. Let's just hope this place holds together for that long...

680 wasn't crowded?  How old were you at the time, 5?  680 has been a living hell since the late 70s.  In the early 80s they did a study to determine how wide it needed to be to accommodate the traffic.  The answer was 17 lanes.  It's still not as bad as the pure hell that is the 10 miles that are 237. 

As for H1B the majority of those people I know are renters.  Two of the smartest  people I know work at Apple on a H1B and one is from Ireland and the other from The Congo.  As for the housing I think it's more old school silicone valley people like my boss and his dad who have 24 rental properties between them. 

NetApp - I used to work one of their suppliers, Xyratex.  What a nightmare the relationship between those companies.

I see you are Escalon, is Boat Country still there?  I bought my first Malibu there. 

Amen brother, I live in Cupertino so I think you can guess how I feel about these lovely programs to insulate our tech companies from paying fair wages. Trump did promise to do away with the H1B program and gee I wonder what happened? The original intent of the H1B program is to bring folks from all over the world not 80%+ from one country and those folks don't assimilate well.

I've got a couple nice states picked out which I will not say as to avoid libtards from following me. You want to know the problem with both liberals and republicans? They both still promise free crap and push our debt levels even higher (21T now). When the balloon finally pops folks will be quite surprised how their lives will change. Just like a household you cannot keep spending more than you bring in, it will catch up with you.

My time here is quickly drawing to a close.

Quote from: ledphoot on January 24, 2019, 03:18:14 PM
California Native of 47 years. I remember when everything around "Silicon Valley" was farms and orchards, when it wasn't crowded, when highway 85 didn't exist, Highway 280/680 weren't crowded, when you went out at night you could drive without seeing another car on the highway.

Things have changed RADICALLY in the last 25 years. The demographics have changed dramatically due abuse of H1B Visa programs by the tech companies, lots of money from China / India buying up property in Fremont / Milpitas / Sunnyvale since the mid 90's. etc. This has driven housing costs through the roof. I do not begrudge these people from coming here, many of my friends came here on H1B status, but when I look at the demographic shift at my former employer, NetApp, I can see quite clearly what has happened. This is not healthy for our children as they are being priced out of work by foreign competition.

Trump campaigned on stopping the H1B abuse and now he is talking about H2B Visas in negotiations for the wall!!!!! SMH that guy. It doesn't matter who the politician is, they are all liars and will all give you a good railing, without lube or a kiss first.

This state has become an epic sh*thole, but I am stuck here for at least the next 13 years, at which point I hope to be getting out to Boise Idaho, Bozeman Montana or someplace else that still respects the constitution and the rights of the individual. Let's just hope this place holds together for that long...

Quote from: Morty426 on January 25, 2019, 08:11:39 PM

Quote from: ledphoot on January 24, 2019, 03:18:14 PM
California Native of 47 years. I remember when everything around "Silicon Valley" was farms and orchards, when it wasn't crowded, when highway 85 didn't exist, Highway 280/680 weren't crowded, when you went out at night you could drive without seeing another car on the highway.

Things have changed RADICALLY in the last 25 years. The demographics have changed dramatically due abuse of H1B Visa programs by the tech companies, lots of money from China / India buying up property in Fremont / Milpitas / Sunnyvale since the mid 90's. etc. This has driven housing costs through the roof. I do not begrudge these people from coming here, many of my friends came here on H1B status, but when I look at the demographic shift at my former employer, NetApp, I can see quite clearly what has happened. This is not healthy for our children as they are being priced out of work by foreign competition.

Trump campaigned on stopping the H1B abuse and now he is talking about H2B Visas in negotiations for the wall!!!!! SMH that guy. It doesn't matter who the politician is, they are all liars and will all give you a good railing, without lube or a kiss first.

This state has become an epic sh*thole, but I am stuck here for at least the next 13 years, at which point I hope to be getting out to Boise Idaho, Bozeman Montana or someplace else that still respects the constitution and the rights of the individual. Let's just hope this place holds together for that long...

680 wasn't crowded?  How old were you at the time, 5?  680 has been a living hell since the late 70s.  In the early 80s they did a study to determine how wide it needed to be to accommodate the traffic.  The answer was 17 lanes.  It's still not as bad as the pure hell that is the 10 miles that are 237. 

As for H1B the majority of those people I know are renters.  Two of the smartest  people I know work at Apple on a H1B and one is from Ireland and the other from The Congo.  As for the housing I think it's more old school silicone valley people like my boss and his dad who have 24 rental properties between them. 

NetApp - I used to work one of their suppliers, Xyratex.  What a nightmare the relationship between those companies.

I see you are Escalon, is Boat Country still there?  I bought my first Malibu there.

Yeah I was a kid, but my memory is clear as day of going with my mom in her Chrysler Town & Country Wagon, from Sunnyvale to Pleasanton where my father was selling houses....

Many many H1B's are renters, thus the lack of rental property in the valley. The apartment complex I lived in at Fair Oaks and El Camino when I was 19 with a roommate is now almost entirely taken over by H1B holders, four to a unit. I don't begrudge them... It's the companies and the politicians I take issue with.

I actually have a home in Escalon and one in Boulder Creek.. I believe the boat shop is still downtown, I will make a trip through there next time I head out to the ranchette.

 :wrenching: You know what I really love about the Dems? I love how they have their town halls and preach how the rich have to pay more in taxes up to 70% more; then I apply common sense to what they just said and tell myself:  I know they have been in Washington since the first corner stone of the White house was set so they should be very rich now; my question to them if I was in one of those town hall meetings would be are you prepared to lead by example and tax yourself 70% first? Just like the Health Care debacle did Nancy sign up for the famous health care she campaigned so hard for? Short answer No they made sure they had a loophole so they wouldn't be penalized for not signing up for it. Gotta love them swap creatures.   

That would be asking too much from your elected officials, regardless if Republicans or Democrats.

Quote from: 7212Mopar on February 01, 2019, 11:47:36 AM
That would be asking too much from your elected officials, regardless if Republicans or Democrats.

DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO!!!!!! Like the wall around there estate, but not for the boarder.

 :wrenching: Amen!!!! Funny how they were for wall funding when they where in charge to the tune of 40 billion but now since they are not in charge the wall is inhumane  :drunk:

I don't blame them.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190403/fb57fa959ad23469aaa260daf4c83fd3.jpg)

I read yesterday the petition by people with enough signatures secured a ballot measures to repeal the new exhaust law in California. I have not seen it in the news. Will see what happen.

Quote from: IRON MAN on January 10, 2019, 10:35:27 AM
Governor Brown's legacy is a  $6.1 BILLION budget surplus when he left office last week. Most of this money came from the gas tax. In 2018, California's economy surpassed that of the United Kingdom to become the 5th largest economy in the world. This attracts a lot of talent and money. There are far more people moving to California than leaving. People are coming here to join the parade, or as my brother in Huntington Beach says "Chasing the rainbow."

I disagree... I have lived in Kalifornia my entire life, it is going down the drain. Too many people, cost of living too high, overburdensome laws / regulations, confiscatory state government with no respect of it's citizens.. the list goes on and on.

And.. More people are leaving than coming in..

http://www.ktvu.com/news/ktvu-local-news/california-exodus-study-says-more-people-leaving-state-than-moving-here

I know a LOT of people that have left, they took deep six figure jobs with them. They work remote and fly in for meetings from time to time. As technology makes people more location independent and tech companies keep building outposts in Colorado, Montana, Iowa, Utah etc. you will see massive changes in the landscape here. I am looking for a way out, if I find it you can bet that I will cash in my chips and flee this sinking ship before it's too late.

Gavin Newsom will likely be the nail in the coffin of Kalifornia.

Quote from: ledphoot on April 03, 2019, 08:55:15 AM

Quote from: IRON MAN on January 10, 2019, 10:35:27 AM
Governor Brown's legacy is a  $6.1 BILLION budget surplus when he left office last week. Most of this money came from the gas tax. In 2018, California's economy surpassed that of the United Kingdom to become the 5th largest economy in the world. This attracts a lot of talent and money. There are far more people moving to California than leaving. People are coming here to join the parade, or as my brother in Huntington Beach says "Chasing the rainbow."

I disagree... I have lived in Kalifornia my entire life, it is going down the drain. Too many people, cost of living too high, overburdensome laws / regulations, confiscatory state government with no respect of it's citizens.. the list goes on and on.

And.. More people are leaving than coming in..

http://www.ktvu.com/news/ktvu-local-news/california-exodus-study-says-more-people-leaving-state-than-moving-here

I know a LOT of people that have left, they took deep six figure jobs with them. They work remote and fly in for meetings from time to time. As technology makes people more location independent and tech companies keep building outposts in Colorado, Montana, Iowa, Utah etc. you will see massive changes in the landscape here. I am looking for a way out, if I find it you can bet that I will cash in my chips and flee this sinking ship before it's too late.

Gavin Newsom will likely be the nail in the coffin of Kalifornia.

Long term Californian here as well.
100% in agreement with Ledphoot above. I remain the only person in California. All my family and friends from early on have moved elsware. ALL who have left are professionals with solid above average incomes.
Current leadership touts number percentages of persons coming in are greater than those leaving. Beating chest that California remains strong. When vast majority of state income is payed by less than 10% of top earners. It is not strong.
Reality is that more money is leaving than is coming in. Tenfold...
Rapid decline is unfortunately expected with new gov.
Hard to comprehend that Jerry was "better" than current.

California native since 4 years old. This place is going to hell in a handbasket.

Let me give you the future of California. Sure they can tout a 6.1B surplus but they don't talk about the pension liabilities (which I thought was around 160B but it seems I was wrong). See here - http://www.pensiontracker.org/

So essentially lawmakers don't want to let Firefighters, Police, Teachers, and other govt workers know that their pension cannot continue in it's current state. Instead of facing down the problem they kick the can down the road. Actually the problem gets worse in the fact that all the lobbyists for each of the aforementioned makes sure city council members who try to correct the problem are thrown off the city council. So in the end, city budgets will dwindle because a lions share will be paid to keep pensions going and let the roads, schools, and other infrastructure/services go to hell. The only way out? Guess what it's bankruptcy and it's been done before and those lovely politicians want others to deliver the bad news.

So either the state government will have to raise taxes on all sorts of crazy stuff like Illinois now (internet usage tax, etc) or they will have to reduce or eliminate programs now to pay for those pensions.

Either way it's gonna get real ugly.

Yes I will be out of here somewhat soon and I'm not saying where I'm going.

:)

I will be very worry when big companies and institutions are leaving the state. the reality is that people are far easier to be replaced than companies. All you can do is look after for yourself and have Plan B, Plan C in place. The problem is too big to solve. The only way to solve it is when the crash happens and we start from scratch again. The idea of paying a guy that retire before age 60 with healthcare coverage and almost full pay while hiring another person to do the job of the retired person with the same benefits is not sustainable. But that is exactly what we have. No such deal for people working in the private sector.

It's actually worse, some get more pay in retirement than when they were working.

The system is completely broken because they allow these guys to do massive overtime and extra hours the three years leading up to retirement so they can pad their pension like mad. It's completely stupid.

Large businesses are leaving.
This is taken from business journal.

"What is more serious is the number of California-based companies that have left or signaled their intention to leave the state. Last year marks the first anniversary of the announcement that Carl's Jr., a California burger icon for more than six decades, was relocating its headquarters to Nashville. It's a symbol for what's become a stream of businesses that have quit California. What was once an almost quiet exodus of companies  now looks more like a stampede.

Among the roll call of  businesses abandoning California for more hospitable business environments includes Toyota which has left Torrance and will complete the move of its U.S. headquarters to Dallas in the coming month. Also having left for Dallas is Jacobs Engineering Group, $6.3 billion firm formerly based in Pasadena that has more than 230 offices across the world, employs 60,000 and generates $12 billion in annual revenue.

Nissan North America (left for Nashville a decade before Carl's Jr. did), Jamba Juice (traded San Francisco for Frisco, Texas), Occidental Petroleum (prefers Houston over Westwood for its headquarters), Numira Biosciences (departed Irvine for Salt Lake City) and Omnitracs, a software firm (waved goodbye to San Diego and said hello to Dallas). Chevron moved 800 jobs from its Bay Area headquarters to Texas, and Waste Connections shifted more than 100 jobs to Texas from Folsom.

"Manufacturing firms account for the largest group of businesses that sought greener pastures, followed by pharmaceutical companies."

In addition, two dozen California companies have said they are tired of the business-bashing in Sacramento, along with the high taxes — and are now threatening to leave the state. The passing of proposition 30 in 2012 triggered $6 billion in new annual taxes pushed even more companies to abandoning the Golden State for greater opportunities in Arizona and Nevada. For example, Kubota Tractor Corp. and Kubota Credit Corp., the company's financing arm, plan to move their headquarters from Torrance to Grapevine, Texas".

Dang it's like I can predict the future!!!

https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019/04/01/april-1-california-sales-tax-increase-51-cities/

Quote from: HP_Cuda on April 03, 2019, 03:10:13 PM

Dang it's like I can predict the future!!!

https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2019/04/01/april-1-california-sales-tax-increase-51-cities/

Don't blame that on the State.  Blame that on morons that are allowed to vote. 

Ballot initiatives are what are killing this State. 

It is kinda two fold: one yes for the voters who only vote for free money for themselves and two for the politicians who won't face down a problem that will bankrupt them.

I say this because other states have actually taken measures to head this problem off and yet Calif can only keep spending $$$ they don't have.  :barf:

Simple cause and effect scenario. More "free" money offerings equates to more persons entering state for it.
For real change to work. Tough and unpleasant decisions need to be made. Creating masses that lose out on what others are already receiving becomes political suicide. Because of that, real change never happens. Only smoke and mirrors to kick can down the road further.
We are unfortunately a reactive society. Not a proactive one.
They don't put up a traffic signal until after someone dies.
When the legitimate and eventual crash happens. There will then be possible real change. Not until then.

Quote from: HP_Cuda on April 04, 2019, 10:34:28 AM

It is kinda two fold: one yes for the voters who only vote for free money for themselves and two for the politicians who won't face down a problem that will bankrupt them.

I say this because other states have actually taken measures to head this problem off and yet Calif can only keep spending $$$ they don't have.  :barf:

No it's the later.  The politicians are too scared to make the hard decisions so they bury things in committee.  That results in someone how does not understand all of the ramifications putting a ballot initiative to be voted by the masses.  Remember HALF of those people are BELOW AVERAGE intelligence. 

The same thing happened in England.  They were too pansy to decide on Brexit so they punted to the people.  Being a bunch of twits they voted themselves out.  Now they will tank their economy and there will be a huge ripple through the world economy. 

We need to change the ballot initiative process and hold our politicians more accountable. 

Quote from: YellowThumper on April 04, 2019, 11:14:38 AM
Simple cause and effect scenario. More "free" money offerings equates to more persons entering state for it.
For real change to work. Tough and unpleasant decisions need to be made. Creating masses that lose out on what others are already receiving becomes political suicide. Because of that, real change never happens. Only smoke and mirrors to kick can down the road further.
We are unfortunately a reactive society. Not a proactive one.
They don't put up a traffic signal until after someone dies.
When the legitimate and eventual crash happens. There will then be possible real change. Not until then.

That is all the US not just the US. 

Two 737 Max 8/9 planes went down and we grounded the fleet.

Yet EVERY DAY ~100 young drivers in the US die EVERY DAY.  It used to be higher but it is down because fewer younger drivers are enter the driving pool.  It used to be at 130 per day which was equal to a 737 going down EVERY DAY.  What did we do?  NOTHING!

We need real driver training for young drivers (and maybe some older ones). 

Better yet let's remove all the young mans testosterone.  For every improvement we just find another avenue to thrill and kill.

Comment meant with every bit of sarcasm it sounds like. But with the touch of reality in it.

Quote from: YellowThumper on April 05, 2019, 08:06:57 AM
Better yet let's remove all the young mans testosterone.  For every improvement we just find another avenue to thrill and kill.

Comment meant with every bit of sarcasm it sounds like. But with the touch of reality in it.

It's a well known fact at the age of 13 the male brain shrinks to the size of a peanut and does not grow back until 25.  Some later.  Others never.  That's why we did all that stupid shit when we were young.   :crazytalk: