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Offline 6bblgt

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2017, 08:35:57 PM »
it's right in the title: SPD = "Scheduled Production Date"

I have yet to see an A53 "TRANS AM" e-body that was "SCEDULED" 401-SPD that was not completed in March based on an original door sticker.

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2017, 08:54:15 PM »
it's right in the title: SPD = "Scheduled Production Date"

Yes, I've always heard of it referred to as a Scheduled Production Date, but I wasn't sure if that title was created by the factory, or if it was something that we hobbyists had come up with in the intervening years while trying to figure this stuff out.  :)
 

I have yet to see an A53 "TRANS AM" e-body that was "SCEDULED" 401-SPD that was not completed in March based on an original door sticker.

Perfect, that's exactly what I was looking for.   Definitely Scheduled then, and not actual.

Thanks again Dan!

Offline 6bblgt

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2017, 09:00:17 PM »
& if there is any credibility to my "Actual Production Date" theories - this 401 SPD AAR was completed on Thursday March 19th

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2017, 09:00:17 PM »

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2017, 09:09:10 PM »
Your theories require a broadcast sheet correct?

I mean, you can't tell from just a fender tag or a door sticker right?

Offline 6bblgt

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2017, 09:33:49 PM »
Your theories require a broadcast sheet correct?

I mean, you can't tell from just a fender tag or a door sticker right?

correct

I thought it would be easy to find "SPD" in print - it's got to be somewhere,
but here is the best I could find right now from a 1970 Plymouth Service Manual & a '67 IBM card .....

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2017, 09:34:03 PM »
& if there is any credibility to my "Actual Production Date" theories - this 401 SPD AAR was completed on Thursday March 19th
How did you determine the completion date?
1969 A57 cuda Fastback 383 4-Speed
1969 Dart GT Sport 383 4-Speed
1970 cuda 340 Slap-Stik
1970 cuda AAR 4-Speed A01 A22 A62

Offline cuda dad

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2017, 09:41:19 PM »
it's right in the title: SPD = "Scheduled Production Date"

I have yet to see an A53 "TRANS AM" e-body that was "SCEDULED" 401-SPD that was not completed in March based on an original door sticker.
I have 402 SPD with March Sticker


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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2017, 09:41:19 PM »

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2017, 09:41:26 PM »
He has documented enough build sheets to put together a time frame.   And he's continuing to add more to the list all the time.... that's helps figure it all out.  So if you have a build sheet, post it up so he can continue to build up an accurate database.    :bradsthumb:

& if there is any credibility to my "Actual Production Date" theories - this 401 SPD AAR was completed on Thursday March 19th
How did you determine the completion date?

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2017, 09:45:31 PM »
Okay, I just put mine up for you

Offline 6bblgt

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2017, 10:10:56 PM »
this all started with the A12 crowd wanting to know when their Six Pack Super Bees & 6bbl Road Runners were actually built as all have 329 or 426 for a SPD (they were built over 12 weeks).

using yearly & monthly production totals, broadcast sheets, door stickers, a clock & a calendar * I'm "reverse engineering" the flow of production - I'd like to find copies of specific plant UAW contracts to find holiday schedules and other info I'm convinced are documented within.

all of the above & I've been putting in more than a few hours trying to get more months/dates figured out since Spring Fling and I'm a bit  :crying: how little time I spent in the show field & at MATS I'm going to be busy also * a friend & I just finished his '72 GTX - anyone else going?

ISSUES: for example - I was missing 4-days March '70 Hamtramck Line #1  :headbang: I think I found them Monday night .....
it appears UAW had a 4-day Easter break - right now I have it on the calendar as Wednesday 3/25 thru Monday 3/30 (NO production)
it affects some of the dates earlier in this thread & I'll go back and edit them
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 10:46:50 PM by 6bblgt »

Offline 6bblgt

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2017, 10:40:15 PM »
@cuda dad your FE5 AAR  8) BS23J0B2925**'s completion falls on Tuesday 3/24 -
do you have the "consumer information" form with the braking specs? they are dated, I'm guessing  :fingerscrossed: 3/21

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2017, 10:40:15 PM »

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2017, 11:55:36 PM »
 :bigthumb:  I love that you continue to add to your database and find more pieces to the puzzle.   :waving:

"Cuda Cody"
1970 Challenger T/A JH23J0B276xxx with a 313-SPD (Friday March 13) was "In Plant/In Process" on Tuesday March 17, 1970  = LATE

@Cuda Cody  I missed an Easter holiday & that would move this car to Wednesday March 11, 2 days ahead of schedule

this Challenger T/A was among 5,961 Dodge e-bodies built during the month of March combined at both the Hamtramck, MI & Los Angeles, CA assembly plants
the #5 (of 12) most productive month of Challenger production for the 1970 model year

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2017, 01:05:48 AM »
If I remember all of this correctly (hopefully I saved a copy of the conversation), Dave Walden...

I went digging through my car notes, and thought you guys might appreciate these excerpts from conversations with Dave.
Most of this is from Dave, but I know that some of it is also from other people.  It's a wall of text, so make sure you get comfortable before you start reading.

At the time, I was trying to look at how standard items were coded on the sheet.
I had noticed how some standard items aren't coded on the sheet. Like a non rallye instrument cluster, even though the 70 challenger cluster is different that the 70 barracuda cluster, the sheet doesn't seem to specify which to install in a car. Same with the SE tail panel & smaller rear window, not specifically coded, you have to know that they are part of the SE package. Door panel carpet, etc...


"Here are two build sheets that I have for my Challenger JS23U0B244002. One thing to notice is that both sheets are different concerning the font or typed characters. On one sheet the lettering skipped one character to the right and the numbers ended up one row off. Also notice the different font characters regarding the 3 and 5.
The other image is a Vehicle Traveler sheet that was in the trunk of the car. It is not a build sheet but incorporates the entire first row of information found on a build sheet. I have reproduced these to exact appearance of the originals and will be offering them upon approval. Hope this information helps!

Were there differences if font styles from plant to plant and/or year to year, as with the fender tags?
Broadcast sheets were printed out all over the plant, not all of the printers had the exact same font for every character. So, fonts varied even inside the same plant with broadcast sheets for the same car.
The numbers can be darker and sometimes a little thicker or fatter due to a fresh ribbon in a printer.  There was a top copy that was ink printed from the printer and there was a carbon copy also. The carbon copies are always sharper or thinner since they got no splatter from the ribbon like the top copy did because the top copy absorbs all of squash the key stroke created.
The characters that usually varied in font style between plants were 0, 3, 5, 6, and 9. The 1’s sometimes even varied within the same manufacturing plant.

There were at least 50-60 build sheets that accompanied a vehicle during it’s assembly. Each station required the option information in order to accurately install the specified part(s). The sheets that usually made it out of the plant were the ones that were easily concealed by the actual part used for assembly. (Carpet, dash, seats, headliner, etc….) They obviously couldn’t or wouldn’t have left one stuffed in the spokes of the steering wheel. The LA plant had a “trash” policy that stated no paperwork was to be left in the vehicle during assembly. As with all rules and regulations, we know that employees didn’t always follow directions.

the printers had a fixed print ball just like the select type typewriters of the day.  the font differences came from repaired printers that had replacement balls that had different or up dated characters.
The sheets have feed holes on the sides because they were run through a processor that ran thousands from forms that were connected and separated by perforations.

I checked my notes referencing the various printing methods used to create Chrysler business forms. Build sheets were printed on an automated processor that required information, downloaded from a main frame data base. The information was entered by office employees but the printing was networked automatically to substations throughout the plant. The printing station used a spinning ball, with fixed fonts, to provide the primary print you see on a build sheet. The Monroney (MSRP) window stickers incorporated a 21 pin processor in their printing.  The fonts that were used to print the window stickers were not determined by the physical printer but the software that was used in the database system. A 21 pin configuration printing system was the style that Chrysler predominately used throughout that time period. (The same aspects are true for the fonts that were used for the VIN data decals.) Density of print was determined by the 21 pin print mechanism (striking pressure). 
Monroney Label/sticker (aka "Window Sticker") named for Oklahoma Senator Almer Stillwell "Mike" Monroney who created the bill to make this sticker/label a Federal law to protect consumers from fraud.
It was required by law to keep slick sales people from selling cars with implied warranties or components or accessories that may not have been there "Sure it's the big V8 and heavy duty suspension with the Suregrip differential..." that sometimes the buyer couldn't really verify unless they took the component apart, jacked the car up, or really knew their cars. (Oh that, no that's not yellow paint, that the new Yellow Primer.)  It was requied by law that every manufacture and their dealers told the customer EXACTLY what they were purchasing and what the warranty covered. Eventually the EPA included fuel economy info, to help the customer with their buying decision. 

As far as I know, the blue and white sheets ended sometime in September or October of 1969 (for the 70 cars) and replaced with the more colorful sheets.
Two broadcast sheets still attached to each other showed that none of the Sequence #, VON, & VIN numbers were sequential coming out of the printer.  In fact they even had different SPDs, one being 5-13 and the other being 5-15.

They used this ball in their Select Type typwriters that was and invention/trademark of IBM. The typwriter allowed for quick changes in the balls that could change the entire (font) look of the print.
The broadcast printers were just an overgrown typewriter in a case with a box of tractor feed forms under it that was tied into the main frame computer.
The main frame computer was housed at Chrysler's corporate headquarters where the data entry people were as well. The information was sent to the remote printers in the different plants.
The only thing that the individual plants had the control to change on the broadcast sheets were the sequence number on the far left side of line one. This was the actual order in which the cars went down the line and was subject to change as the scheduled production dates were seldom accurate. The actual run time for a given car was determined after daily planning meeting at the plants regarding all parts available to build cars for the following day.

The sales order and it's number were the first document in the life of a car. After it was written it was determined by the corporate office as to which plant it would be produced at depending on which plant built that particular model and was geographically closest to where the car was to be shipped to, if it was predestine for a dealership. At that point the sales order number, the V.I.N. and the SPD were input on the IBM computer that generated the IBM card and from that point the plant that was to produce the car picked up this information from the IBM system.
Every dealership was issued a zone number from Corporate. Here are a few examples from the sixties and seventies era:

*Diamond Chrysler Plymouth in Kansas City, MO; zone #52
*Billings Chrysler Plymouth in Montana; zone #72
*Worthington Dodge in California; zone #71
*Massillion Dodge in Ohio; zone #45
*Dodge Village in Connecticut; zone #31
*Hamburg Chrysler Plymouth in New York; zone #44

I have hundreds of dealerships in my database and the zones that were issued to them. When these individual dealerships received an order it was forwarded to Corporate and the vehicle was scheduled for build. Chrysler headquarters did all of the internal data entry that was provided and down loaded to the manufacturing facilities. Different plants were accommodated to build certain vehicles and the issue of where a car was built was determined by that factor. (Hemi Cudas were ALL built at the Hamtramck plant etc… Hamtramck was setup production wise for that type of vehicle.) Each plant was delegated the duty of processing the data and orchestrating production according to the sequence issued by the main hub, aka Corporate. Sometimes there were issues that required vehicles to be removed from their assigned sequence of assembly on the line. This would cause glitches for the return startup of the assembly process. The paperwork would continue to come in even when the line would stop. Imagine the confusion during the periods when parts would run out or a malfunction would occur with the automated machinery!

Why do some broadcast sheets use red ink?  Note the printed codes are in red, I get asked about this every so often, so here is why. This sheet was one of the ones printed via carbon paper. The black ink would have been on the front copy and most of the "second" page sheets. The "end roll" sheets used red carbon paper to alert the person printing the sheets that the broadcast sheet blanks were about to run out. The same basic system is used today on cash register and credit card receipts.

There was no legal reason to
include with the completed car any of the broadcast sheets. In fact, in later years
they were actively eliminated because the paper was not in compliance with
government standards of cloth fire resistance.

BUILDSHEETS are found in Chevys...to find a BROADCAST Sheet you have to be into Mopars

1970 model year at “B” Hamtramck assembly plant Michigan.
You will find “pilot cars” with a 801 “scheduled production date” - these were not built on Friday, August 1st 1969, they were assembled many weeks/months earlier.
You will find “promo cars” with a 802 “scheduled production date” - these were not built on Saturday, August 2nd 1969, they were final assembled during the first work week August 4-8 (or later).
Clairpointe Pre-Production facility. 
Its usual function was a training area for assembly of the next-year's models. It was
complete with scaled down versions of every major area of an assembly plant,
so that the new parts and new technologies could be tried under actual
conditions before the "real" cars were assembled. (Clairpointe test cars completed are
"pilot cars"). For example, in May of 1969, perhaps twenty of the
soon-to-be-introduced E-bodies were completely built at Clairpointe.
In late 1969, when the 1970 models were already in full production (since August 1, 1969), and the 1971 model pilot assembly had not yet begun, Clairpointe was ideally suited for SuperBird final assembly; its close proximity
to Lynch Road was an added bonus."

Photo 1 Broadcast sheets with carbon paper

Photo 2 Two broadcast sheets still attached to each other.

Photo 3  Vehicle Traveler
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 02:29:16 AM by cataclysm80 »

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2017, 03:27:30 AM »
10 of the sheets @cataclysm80 posted:

JH23C0B107922 * SPD Monday 825 & "In Plant/In Process" Friday 829 = LATE assembly Line #2
JH23C0B109314 * SPD Tuesday 826 & "In Plant/In Process" Friday 829 = LATE assembly Line #2
BH23C0B1410xx * SPD Wednesday 931 & "In Plant/In Process" Friday A10 = LATE assembly Line #1 (SPD should be A01)
JH23G0B14713x * SPD Friday A03 & "In Plant/In Process" Thursday A02 = ON-TIME assembly Line #1
BS23R0B146669 * SPD Monday A06 & "In Plant/In Process" Tuesday A21 = LATE assembly Line #1
BP23G0B1880xx * SPD Monday B10 & "In Plant/In Process" mid-November (holidays are giving me headaches) assembly Line #1
BS23H0B199xxx * SPD Saturday B22 & "In Plant/In Process" late-November (holidays are giving me headaches) assembly Line #1
BP23G0B2344xx * SPD Wednesday 114 & "In Plant/In Process" Wednesday 128 = LATE assembly Line #1
BH23C0B2568xx * SPD Friday 220 & "In Plant/In Process" Tuesday 217 = EARLY assembly Line #1
BH23B0B3548xx * SPD Monday 601 & "In Plant/In Process" Thursday 528 = EARLY assembly Line #1


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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2017, 01:52:54 PM »
Here you go Dan, talked to Cody not long ago and Dan would be interested in your car. I hear your the numbers guy so here goes. 1970 Dodge Challenger, SL6, 3-speed and power nothing. EK2 exterior, burnt orange interior. Fender tag, door Mylar, dash tag all share the same V.I.N. I bought it as a daily driver in early 1973. She rolled off the LA assy. line 818 (Aug. 18, 1969) sequence #113 (100113) pretty early I think, how about you? Then to a dealership somewhere in SoCal, maybe. I do know that according to my Cal registration it was not sold until April 22,1970.that was of course to whoever bought this car before me. Seems like it was a lot lizard for awhile.

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Re: Actual Production Date VS "Scheduled Production Date"
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2017, 01:52:54 PM »

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