is the cost of restoring an E body exceeding its value when complete?

[anlauto]

Another thing to consider ...everybody on this forum will have a different definition of "restoration" ....for me, in order for the car to look "new" again it requires "NEW"  parts.....you mentioned finding tail lights for $100....I assume they are nicer then the ones on your car ? but again, for me they are just still used parts.... people aren't selling their cars for six figures with old used parts on them

[6bblgt]

The car to be specific is a 1970 Challenger RT, 383 4v, AT, AC,PS,PB. Rally dash, 3 speaker, V35 radio, 6 way non power seat, black interior, Plum Crazy paint, black vinyl roof, bumble bee stripe, chrome mirror, rally hood, with lanyards.  And bloody drum brakes!

with a broadcast sheet & fender tag:
I'd restore it stock (with a stroker 383/400 if additional hp is desired - power disc brakes, 15" radials & fuel injection if deemed necessary) but why mess with near perfection? 

[6bblgt]

(with a stroker 383/400 if additional hp is desired - power disc brakes, 15" radials & fuel injection if deemed necessary) but why mess with near perfection?

& the above will cost more money in the build but probably won't increase the end product value by the same $ figure

[ragtopdodge]

383 R/T automatic....#1 condition would probably be lucky to get $80k for it.

If you don't do a whole lot yourself, you're still looking at close to $75k to restore not including the cost of the car.

[7E-Bodies]

I'm well into the second half of a rock solid, long-term, indoor stored 70 RT U code with the original drivetrain fully rebuilt and all of the expensive stuff on the shelves in restored/professionally refurbished condition. I have 42k in it and it's just in epoxy. I fully get the fact that one can't expect pay for their countless hours, but if anyone were to step in with offers (which I'm not interested in selling), they'd never be allowed to even think of an offer valued under a folder of receipts. Although never anticipating selling this car, I always keep a business attitude towards not ending up in the red as we can never predict future financial surprises.

[Mr Cuda]

How do you think the people restoring an A body feel?
Costs just as much to restore a dart as it does a good car (cuda).

[anlauto]

How do you think the people restoring an A body feel?
Costs just as much to restore a dart as it does a good car (cuda).

I'm restoring a 1971 Demon that I quoted the customer $100K+ CDN ( about $78500 USD ) to restore    http://www.alangallantautomotiverestoration.com/FC7DEM.html

[tparker]

This topic is a sore subject for me. I personally do not like when people use these cars as investments. I Think there are better places to put your money that doesn't hurt people who love these cars but are unfortunate enough to not have the money to purchase them. I was lucky and go mine dirt cheap years ago, but could never afford another mopar ( or any muscle car) I play guitar and all the good guitars, amps, and even pedals are all driven up in price by collectors. But what are you gonna do. LOL

If you have a crappy car that needs lots of work (like mine) then you probably will be upside down UNLESS you work it. I did almost all the work myself except the the dash, machine work, and assembly of the motor (the latter was only and extra few bucks so why not). This included the paint, upholstry, vinyl top, window installations, body work, etc. The parts weren't too expensive. The big ticket items were the roof (under $700), paint and materials (about $1500-2000),Engine work about $3000, exhaust and headers almost $2000, Dash around $1000, and the interior for about $1000 or so.

Paint can cost 15k on up. how much is a Hemi? A lot, plus about $1000 for every part you don't have. LOL, 440? cheaper, 340 probably even a bit cheaper. But a few thousand. Plus how much do you want to put into the motor? Tranny need a rebuild? When you start to add it all upI think you can easily spend 25-35k on a car that isn't special at all and probably not worth it. If you have something cool and unique, perhaps you can make your money back.

But I wish these cars wern't investments. They just sit and get little use and deprive true gear heads. oh well

[70_440-6Cuda]

  this is a sore subject - I love these cars and the investment side of things makes it near impossible to own some of the greatest versions - when I was a teenager my brother and I were constantly buying and selling all types of muscle cars just for the experience of driving a cool car for a couple of months - those days are long gone.

For me, I learned a long time ago that my love for cars and customizing / building them is my creative outlet.  My wife has always given me a hard time as I have almost always customized my vehicles in some way but always seem to get about 95% complete, drive them for several months like that and then crank out the last 5% in order to sell it and move on to the next one.

Someone once said to me, the joy is in the doing, not in the having.  That is what rings true for me - I love the process and taking something as it is today and turning it into what is my vision and the sense accomplishment. 

As I see it, the costs to restore will outweigh what the car will be worth, even if you are doing the work yourself. 

[Filthy Filbert]

I did all the work myself, but I wasn't doing it to try and make money.  The one thing that always seems funny to me is the labor. People say their time is worth X, but the reality is unless someone is willing to pay you for your time it's worth nothing. Doesn't matter if you're working on your car or sitting on the sofa watching Star Trek reruns. Don't get me wrong, if you do this for a living or if you decide not to go to work and work on your car instead, then there is money either being made or lost while working on your car. Then your time has value.

If all you have for a choice is "work on car" and "watch TV" then I get your point.

But for me, my time is divided by: going to work, driving kids to their practices/scout meetings, going to games/scout events, mowing the grass, trimming the trees, weeding the garden, splitting firewood to heat the house, maintain the family vehicles -- oil changes, tire rotations, brake jobs, etc, do the laundry, cook dinner, wash dishes, clean the bathrooms, make time to visit with family while they're still alive and well, go on family vacations so the kids grow up with memories of a happy family that did things together...

In that case, you can bet your ass that my time has value; because any time spent working on the hobby car is time not spent doing the other things, and increases the liklihood that I end up paying someone else to do the work I didn't get to.   Like paying someone to mow the grass, clean the house, work on the family daily drivers, etc.

[PLUM72]

...My Challenger had a 383 4v, drum brakes, I could easily go Disc...

If you plan to drive the car, you should go disc brakes up front!  Any late model car will stop quicker than a drum brake Challenger.  You don't want to be on the wrong end of that one.  Box up the drum parts and save them.

[Joegrapes]

I think you miss understand me Filthy Filbert. I didn't mean to say your time has no value. The value I'm talking about is strictly money. I also did all the things you mentioned on top of working 50 hours a week at my job and building the car. Nobody was paying me to build my car, maintain the house and raise my two kids but they were paying me to do my job.

[Rdchallenger]

I did all the work myself, but I wasn't doing it to try and make money.  The one thing that always seems funny to me is the labor. People say their time is worth X, but the reality is unless someone is willing to pay you for your time it's worth nothing. Doesn't matter if you're working on your car or sitting on the sofa watching Star Trek reruns. Don't get me wrong, if you do this for a living or if you decide not to go to work and work on your car instead, then there is money either being made or lost while working on your car. Then your time has value.

If all you have for a choice is "work on car" and "watch TV" then I get your point.

But for me, my time is divided by: going to work, driving kids to their practices/scout meetings, going to games/scout events, mowing the grass, trimming the trees, weeding the garden, splitting firewood to heat the house, maintain the family vehicles -- oil changes, tire rotations, brake jobs, etc, do the laundry, cook dinner, wash dishes, clean the bathrooms, make time to visit with family while they're still alive and well, go on family vacations so the kids grow up with memories of a happy family that did things together...

In that case, you can bet your ass that my time has value; because any time spent working on the hobby car is time not spent doing the other things, and increases the liklihood that I end up paying someone else to do the work I didn't get to.   Like paying someone to mow the grass, clean the house, work on the family daily drivers, etc.

And for those reasons you mentioned is why it is a hobby for most and takes years to complete.

[dodj]

So now 9 months since I acquired my 70 Challenger R/T, and I am still worried about being upside down as an investment.

I'd be worried too...you will be upside down..especially considering you said you will have shops doing a fair amount of the work.

But if you fix up the R/T because you like working on musclecars and want to end up with a cool car to drive when you're done........you are on the right track.

I never kept any of my bills....would ruin the fun...especially if the wife found them.....

[kathyscuda]

take a loan out and buy a nice driver.
you can send the bank a check for 250.00 a month and be driving something.
or you can be spending 250.00 a month on ebag buy ing parts ,and busting your ass for the next 3 years.