Using C-Body spindles on an E-Body ( and A-Body LCA's & Viper calipers)

[Brads70]

Parts I used....
A-BODY lower control arms, 3/16" longer than E-Body
1973 C-Body spindles - 2-3 degs more KPI than E-body 5/8" spindle drop, 5/8" taller than E-Body
1973 C-Body drilled /slotted rotors 1 1/4" thick, fits the Viper calipers with no pad shims!
Howe "quick bump" outer tie rods - I used 11/16" housings
Viper Calipers with custom flex lines-EBC yellow pads
( edit, I ended up going back to the stock pad as the Yellow EBC pad didn't work so well on the street, they needed to be heated up before they worked good. Not so good on the street)
custom caliper bracket- I made
custom adjustable strut rods , I made my own
Hotchkis upper control arms, sway bars front and rear, QA1 double adjustable shocks
Firm feel fast ratio pitman and idler arms
Firm feel greaseable LCA pins and poly bushings
66-70 B-Body center link
1.120" torsion bars. I'd have  bigger ones to try in the future 1.180"
QA1 double adjustable shocks, TD801 Rear, TD501 Front
(note those shock numbers are not what the catalogue suggests as my car is lowered from stock)
Hyperco composite leaf springs part # 10240 ( 225 lb rate)
Modified DrDiff spring hangers superstock length and  1" inboard to suit B-Body width rear end
https://forum.e-bodies.org/wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-and-steering/12/composite-rear-leaf-springs-on-an-e-body/59/msg353#msg353

Thanks to Hotchkis, Howe and Firm feel for the aftermarket support! They all make fantastic products!

[Brads70]

:bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile: :bigsmile:
I've been out with the car all day and wow am I impressed! I love the fast ratio steering! Corners I always had to brake for now I accelerate WITH AUTHORITY! WOW! It's like a new car! I'm still a little shy with the brakes as EBC says to use caution the first 200 urban miles until the brakes are bedded in. The brake noise is annoying but EBC says thats normal during the bedding in cycle also. NO BRAKE FADE NOW! 
The ride quality is improved as well, the shocks do a nice job! :2thumbs: I haven't found the limits of cornering yet can't say if the car pushes or is loose when pushed to it's limits. I took it to the stock car track I work at tonight and it has a few great twisty roads along the way and were I always had to brake , I accelerated pretty hard through them! No tire rubs so far and I still have to set the toe better yet. I just eyeballed it for now as I was in a hurry to drive it. Caster is 3 degree's and camber is about 5/8 of a degree.
All in all..... money well spent, now I REALLY enjoy driving this car! It will never handle like say a Viper but it is a HUGE improvement to what it was!

[Brads70]

Picture of Hotchkis rear sway bar mount welded on. Also a picture of my garage just to inspire those who don't have a lot of space to work in!  :smilielol:

[Brads70]

I had 3 1/2" ( or there abouts) of caster( could have gotten more ) and no I never got zero bump steer. I'd say that's next to impossible! Anyone who claims that is full of crap IMO. I got it down to .047" in 3" of upward spindle travel ( chassis going down)

[Brads70]

I'm just in the process of installing a new strange Dana 60 with rear disc's , Hyperco composite 175lb rate leaf springs and just ordered 1.120 torsion bars from Firm feel. I was too chicken to get the 1.180's?  :grinno:
Installing a new 451"/Keisler auto OD 4 speed too. Also a new firm feel stage 3 power steering box ( old one leaked bad!)
Ok... now I'm broke!  :lol:  :grinyes:

(Edit: I ended up using the 225LB rate composite leaf springs. Part # 10240 Expensive mistake! )




Some pictures of the k-frame out.

[Brads70]

Just a small update. I swapped out the 175lb leaf springs for 225lb rate over the winter and it's much better. Just thought I'd save someone  from buying the wrong rate composite springs?
Also the 1.120" torsion bars are MUCH better than the 1" ones!  :grinyes:  The ride is not real rough either. About the same as a late 70 vette to try and compare?

[Brads70]

I have ordered the DA QA1 shocks, should be here tomorrow. I couldn't use the  TD901 like in the catalogue, I used TD801 due to the lowered ride height as per QA1's recommendations. ( I e-mailed QA1 my ride heights and this is what they suggested)
I REALLY wanted these, but couldn't afford them. :-\
http://www.ridetech.com/store/70-74-e-body-airbar-coil-over-system-triple-adjustable.html

Just got the bushings (3/4" id) I needed to install them. On the part # I got you remove the t-bar and replace the lower bushing . I machined up bushings so they fit the Challenger. QA1 sells the bushings but I have a lathe right here in the garage so I made my own. Busy weekend  I hope to install these soon. For now I just have the rears, when funds allow I'll get the fronts too.

[Brads70]

I have the QA1 DA on all 4 corners now. Haven't had much time to play with them yet. Also swapped in new 18" tires and rims
18x11 on all 4 corners 315/30/18 up front and 295/40/18 in the rear. 


Rims link here    http://www.etwheels.com/lt_iii.html

[Cuda Cody]

WOW!     That is impressive!!!  One of the best how to tech posts ever!     Bravo my friend.

[Shoooter]

Wow Brad that is a great upgrade. I don't think you missed anything in that post. Great job. With the the viper brake upgrade what percentage do you think your braking improved?

[HP_Cuda]

Any oversteer or understeer coming out of a corner with that new setup?

Most likely oversteer with the motor but would love to know the track handling characteristics!!!

[Brads70]

Wow Brad that is a great upgrade. I don't think you missed anything in that post. Great job. With the the viper brake upgrade what percentage do you think your braking improved?

Thanks!  I found the biggest issue with stock disc brakes is the lack of performance pads. The Viper calipers give you many options. I currently have been using EBC Yellow pads and find they don't work so well until they get heated up.  Great for the track but not optimum for the street. They do not fade like the stock pads did, so that in itself is a plus for me. 

[Brads70]

Any oversteer or understeer coming out of a corner with that new setup?

Most likely oversteer with the motor but would love to know the track handling characteristics!!!

When it was all stock I had to brake for every normal corner with street driving. Now I purposely accelerate through corners that I always had to brake for. I don't use the brakes at all making a turn if I don't want to. My kids automatically grab for something to brace themselves when ever a corner comes up. LOL  I took my poor old Dad out for a ride and he almost crapped his shorts. He started cussing said I though for sure you were going to roll this thing.      I get a kick out of people in new regular cars trying to keep up and almost spinning out. On ramps are much more fun now!  I'm sure some of it is the new tires as well as the handling improvements. 315's up front . I much prefer steering with the throttle instead of the insane push it used to have stock. My family Chevy Suburban out handled and out braked the Challenger in stock form, THAT was embarrassing , couldn't have that! 

[HP_Cuda]

Brad

You made me laugh so hard with that last post it reminded me of the time I had my brother in the car and I was drifting it hard sideways in a turn and instead of grabbing something he took both hands and tried to embed his hands into the dash like a cat. 

I looked over and was just laughing through the whole friggin thing.

Priceless.
B

[EB3-GranCoupe]

Brad,
Thanks for reposting this build/set-up!  I am on my way to replicating it on my next project!