Rear Sway Bar Opinions

[70 Challenger Lover]

I was wondering that as well. I think they are using that term towards their unique front hanger. I can see it's different but I wonder if they tilt it up or down of what? I have other front hangers and I'm curious to compare them and see what the differences are.

[Scooter]

I was wondering that as well. I think they are using that term towards their unique front hanger. I can see it's different but I wonder if they tilt it up or down of what? I have other front hangers and I'm curious to compare them and see what the differences are.

I'll let you know if there is any notable difference from the stock hangar when they get here. I mean, it bolts into the same 4 mounting holes as the stock hanger. They can only be moving the hole the front leaf bolt goes through by much. Wonder if they are possibly talking about the overall lowering effect and not the hangar specifically?

. . .
Dramatically improve the cornering performance traction and response of your Mopar E-Body with Hotchkis Sport Suspension Geometry Correcting Sport Leaf Springs. Specifically designed to reduce roll steer this kit features a Hotchkis exclusive Geometry Correcting Bolt-In Relocation Bracket paired up with 160lb/in light weight leaf springs to improve handling performance and balance . The 1 in. lowered design reduces the vehicles center of gravity and enhances the appearance.
. . .

[70 Challenger Lover]

I'm thinking perhaps it's the locating pin at the axle tube. Maybe they move the axle backwards a half inch or something like that?

[HP2]

 The geometry correction Hotchkis is referring to is two fold. In their leaf springs it is the use of a berlin eye instead of a standard eye. Their belief is this eye better transmits force directly through the mounting point without the leverage created by a standard eye. It also provides nominal lowering effect as well. In the hanger bracket it is similarly a vertical centering of the mounting location within the bracket compared to the stock style that is slightly offset. Like the spring, the belied is this centralizes forces instead of leveraging them, the reduction in leverage reduces vertical travel of the leaf to reduce roll steer, and it provides a slight lowering effect.

I would also add that in its best handling form, a leaf spring should appear to be flat in its as installed position. The Mopar oval track springs are only offered with 1" or 0" of arch exactly for this purpose.  The Hotchkis springs take the same principle and apply it in a bolt in method that does not require special hangers, shackles, or custom driveshaft lengths that the Oval track springs  absolutely require.  Scooter, I'd be cautious that the Hotchkis leafs will provide any lift over the OEM springs, even if  the old ones appear flat.

I'd also point out if you look at their spring rates, Hotchkis suggests a 1.1 torsion bar, 165# leafs matched with a a 1.25 tubular front and a .812 tubular rear sway bars.  While their overall sway bar diameters are larger than most other offerings, their tubular construction means their applied rates (as well as overall weight) are down slightly from other versions only available in solid. In sway bars, the rates produced by that 1.25 tubular is close to 1.125 solid and the .812 tubular will be close to a .75 solid.

Suffice it to say that there are a dozen ways to end up with a similar set of parameters.This is why so many people look at suspension as a kind of a voodoo art.

[dodj]

I would also add that in its best handling form, a leaf spring should appear to be flat in its as installed position.

Good to know. My xhd's are flat, have been for a long time and I like the ride height they give. But I've often wondered if I'm not giving up some handling benefits by not having a bit of arch.

[70 Challenger Lover]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. It helps me a lot. I actually like the idea of lowering the car 1" as I think the stance just looks better. In fact, I picked up a set of the Moroso front hangers just so I could have that lower mounting point. If I go with the Hotchkis leafs, I don't really see any downsides. I assume their rear sway bar is appropriately sized to work well with their rear leafs? I can't imagine they would design things that don't compliment each other.

[Scooter]

The geometry correction Hotchkis is referring to is two fold. In their leaf springs it is the use of a berlin eye instead of a standard eye. Their belief is this eye better transmits force directly through the mounting point without the leverage created by a standard eye. It also provides nominal lowering effect as well. In the hanger bracket it is similarly a vertical centering of the mounting location within the bracket compared to the stock style that is slightly offset. Like the spring, the belied is this centralizes forces instead of leveraging them, the reduction in leverage reduces vertical travel of the leaf to reduce roll steer, and it provides a slight lowering effect.

I would also add that in its best handling form, a leaf spring should appear to be flat in its as installed position. The Mopar oval track springs are only offered with 1" or 0" of arch exactly for this purpose.  The Hotchkis springs take the same principle and apply it in a bolt in method that does not require special hangers, shackles, or custom driveshaft lengths that the Oval track springs  absolutely require.  Scooter, I'd be cautious that the Hotchkis leafs will provide any lift over the OEM springs, even if  the old ones appear flat.

I'd also point out if you look at their spring rates, Hotchkis suggests a 1.1 torsion bar, 165# leafs matched with a a 1.25 tubular front and a .812 tubular rear sway bars.  While their overall sway bar diameters are larger than most other offerings, their tubular construction means their applied rates (as well as overall weight) are down slightly from other versions only available in solid. In sway bars, the rates produced by that 1.25 tubular is close to 1.125 solid and the .812 tubular will be close to a .75 solid.

Suffice it to say that there are a dozen ways to end up with a similar set of parameters.This is why so many people look at suspension as a kind of a voodoo art.

Noted and thanks for the very good info! I'm not counting on any lift at all and would be happy if the settled position of the new leaf leaves the car where it sits currently. Based my thought on many posts saying the MP springs really flatten a tonne. I have not seen many cars on the boards that sit as low as mine does that was not by design. I'm at 24 inches ground to fender lip at the back.

If the new leafs from Hotchkis (Am I the only one who reads that name as "Hot Chicks" every time?) throw the handling off I'll look into replacing the TB  and sway to suit. 

[Scooter]

Quick follow up on tires, anyone have thoughts of the Dunlop SP Sport GT? I've seen these pop up a few times in tire searches.

[HP2]

Can't say I've ever comes across the Dunlop SP Sport GT before. 

Googled it and they only come up at Ebay, Wal-Mart, and a place called Priority Tire. Dunlop site has no info on it at all.  Checked the distributors that listed them. Interesting tread pattern but they list it as S speed rated with no UTQG. The speed rating and lack of UTQG info kinda kills my hope of it being a true UHP tire. Tread design is such that the RWL MUST be facing out.

Wonder if these are kind of like classic BFG TA and Firestone Firehawks in that they are vintage molds producing new tires for secondary level distributors. Not bad for most use but probably not something I'd use since I learn more towards the competition side of things.

Ultimate 15"  tires will be Avon CR6ZZ. These are a Z speed rated, d.o.t. competition tire with a UTQG rating of 80. But, at $500 each, probably won't find their way on to too many cruisers. These are real popular with Cobra, Pantera and vintage Ford GT guys.

[Scooter]

^^ Thanks HP2! Been looking at alternatives and for raised white letter in 15" there is not much. Might even consider buying some blackwall and adding the raised letters myself, seems to be a thing now and many are doing it. Think yellow GOODYEAR letters would look slamming on my black/yellow ride.

**add** Gotta ask a stupid tire question. I was looking at the MT Sportsman S/R on Summit, sizes listed like such: 26x8R15, Radial, Blackwall. Is there a conversion somewhere I'm missing? Current size on car is 255 60r-15?

[EB3-GranCoupe]

HP, you beat me to mentioning the Avon CR6ZZ's.  Those and Goodyear BlueStreaks are both tract tires, but at least the Avon has some 'tread' design.  I picked up a panhard rod kit & will install that on the next build, which is destined for track duty. I'm a couple years out from finishing, as the project was slated to start this month :-(

[gzig5]

^^ Thanks HP2! Been looking at alternatives and for raised white letter in 15" there is not much. Might even consider buying some blackwall and adding the raised letters myself, seems to be a thing now and many are doing it. Think yellow GOODYEAR letters would look slamming on my black/yellow ride.

**add** Gotta ask a stupid tire question. I was looking at the MT Sportsman S/R on Summit, sizes listed like such: 26x8R15, Radial, Blackwall. Is there a conversion somewhere I'm missing? Current size on car is 255 60r-15?

https://tiresize.com/chart/

lots of good tools on this site for seeing what is available in certain sizes, comparing sizes an testing fit of tires and wheel backspace.

[HP2]

^^ Thanks HP2! Been looking at alternatives and for raised white letter in 15" there is not much. Might even consider buying some blackwall and adding the raised letters myself, seems to be a thing now and many are doing it. Think yellow GOODYEAR letters would look slamming on my black/yellow ride.

**add** Gotta ask a stupid tire question. I was looking at the MT Sportsman S/R on Summit, sizes listed like such: 26x8R15, Radial, Blackwall. Is there a conversion somewhere I'm missing? Current size on car is 255 60r-15?

MT SR don't offer metric conversions anywhere in their literature. You can use a calculator like this one: https://www.crawlpedia.com/tire_size_converter.htm   I can vouch that the MT inch measurements are spot on though

[Scooter]

^^^ Thanks both... thought I was missing something.

[HP2]

Sure. The link  gzig5 provided is cool because you can see other sizes that are close to the same specs. However, it can be tough to find all the sizes listed as manufacturers will build tires to fit the largest number of cars at the most profitable segments.

My Challenger is set up with 15" SRs at 26" diameters with 10" front and 12" rear. So that's a 255/55 front and 305/45 rear. I may eventually migrate to 17" or possibly 18" wheels, but that's a while in the future and I my burn through a few sets of 15s before then..