Rehauling e-body HD drum brakes

[71vert340]

  I also must agree with MoparLeo. If you are struggling with this brake job, it's best to get someone with experience to show you how to do it correctly. It would be terrible to have brake failure out on the road. Asking questions is good but having someone experienced looking over your shoulder is best. I thought you could buy drums that came with the hubs with the studs and bearing races already pressed in.
Terry

[Katfish]

Might as well convert the front to disc

[kawahonda]

Alrighty! Off to the machine shop they will go.

The good news is that this is only just the fronts! For rears, the drum hub should pop right on.

Not struggling. Just was curious what was going on with that pushrod issue since it wasn't matching the new part or the FSM. Doesn't mean I don't know shit about brakes.

Not my first rodeo guys, it's OK. Thanks for checking over pics.

[71vert340]

 Kawahonda, I certainly apologize and I didn't mean to infer you couldn't do a brake job. With my Challengers and Chargers, many years go by in between brake jobs and I know I have to stop and think if I'm doing it right. I just did it on my 74 Charger this past fall and did one side at a time so I had the other side to look at. The FSM leaves a lot to be desired. I take a lot of photos like you have been doing so I don't make a mistake. Keep at it and you'll get it done. I think I spent almost a month doing my Charger and it has front disc brakes. Like you, I was checking everything and flushing out lines, replacing brake hoses, bleeding the system, packing and installing new wheel bearings, etc.  I found out that asking questions if unsure is good.  I want to do my 71 convertible soon and it has 11" drums all the way around. It's been over 20 years since I've done all 4 drums. If all looks good, I'll flush the system, replace hoses, etc. and go with it. Take care.
Terry

[kawahonda]

ALWAYS appreciate the help guys and the "over the shoulder" looks.

[MoparLeo]

Hey guy, sorry but I kind of get frustrated at a lot of posts on many different forums because of the lack of experience and detail that I see. I don't know you and you don't know me. A little about myself. I have been repairing cars since pre teen.
Took all 4 years of auto shop, metal shop, wood shop during high school. Worked as auto shop teachers assistant during the summers and night school. First job out of high school in 1972 was at a Uniroyal tire store, managed by a high school friends older brother, eventually became a brake and front end tech. Went to work for another local California company until they were sold in 1980. Got tired of the grease and worked up to management/training. Worked for another friend managing his Big-O franchise. Never work for family or friends. Moved on to Bridgestone/Firestone Co. store. Retired from them in 2007 as a store manager. I have been involved in the 2 largest tire recalls in History. Supervised/trained auto techs for 3 decades. I have been a manager/trainer for over 30 years and am somewhat of a perfectionist. You know that by my hinge work. There is a difference between doing an occasional brake service and doing several a day for years. The brake systems are similar but not exactly the same for all of the different years/makes/models of cars on the road.  Get the best on the spot help that you can get and never stop, learning. The service manuals do not have a lot of detail because they were written by/for Factory trained mechanics who are assumed to be familiar with the different systems that the manuals cover. I tried finding a good YouTube video for you but none of them are completely correct, some are close though.

[kawahonda]

Let's begin.

Hey guy, sorry but I kind of get frustrated at a lot of posts on many different forums because of the lack of experience and detail that I see. I don't know you and you don't know me. A little about myself. I have been repairing cars since pre teen.

Don't be the jagged old-man. It doesn't do you any favors. Your posts come across as "me, me, me!." This one sentence that you posted is an exact reason why I say that. What, exactly, is the intention of your posts in this thread? What is the core reason you posted? It seems like it's to get me to stop, and for anyone else to bow down to you that is not 60 years old, or has 40 years of experience.

Notice, I said nothing to defy or downgrade any experience that you posted about. It's just the 'tude. I am thankful that you give tips (the springs being a little too "open"--fixed, etc) but the attitude and belittling gets super old. I hope you consider continuing to post help, but in the right way. The only person I TRUST working on my car is myself.

A little about me? I've done 4-5 brake jobs in cars, about 15 brake jobs in motorcycles. Zero have failed. Zero have had any problems of any sort. Yes, I took shop class too. I do bodywork, I do metal work, I weld, I design, "I this", "I that", but no one cares.

One brake job I did was for my fiance's Element. Using NAPA premium components across the board developed a "click" nose during reverse/forward motions on all four corners. Hmm, interesting. Maybe I should have gave up and delivered it to a "Big O" shop (they would have not resolved the issue), or some other "quick and lube" place since "I lack experience." Turns out after research, Honda issued a factory bulletin on the CRV which they created new retaining clips for the pads to eliminate noise. But guess what, my Fiance has an Element, not the CRV. But did you know they use the exact same brakes? Big-O, or Meinekee, wouldn't have known that, or probably not cared to research it as far as I did. The "click" noise was of zero functional/safety concern, just an annoyance (especially when you have a stick-shift Element). So I purchased the Honda part # for the revised CRV clips and gave them a shot. 100% resolved--and that was after re-greasing the NAPA ones, trying a different brand, etc.

One thing "I" do, is that "I do". Being 35 and inclined to work on this stuff, you should note that it's likely my generation is the last upcoming breed that are keeping/maintaining and working on these cars. So yes, I will continue to do the brakes on this car given my experience, and I will continue to post pictures, ask questions, and appreciate any help along the way.

[kawahonda]

Backing plate was compeltely sprayed and wiped down. You want to remove as much brake dust as possible.

You can see that the shoe contact points were properly greased with a thin film.

The wheel cylinder "arms" where cleaned, steel-wooled, and got a thin film of grease so that they fit into place.

Notice the spring "nail" that came int he kit were all on the short side. I decided to reuse the ones that were on.

Since then, I have "closed off" the head of the upper springs per MoparLeo's advice.

This stuff is pretty basic. Took me way too long to do all this, but a lot of it was the time spent cleaning.

Tomorrow I will do the driver's side, and I will bleed the new master cylinder. I'll go with Dot 5, per this thread's recommendation!

Will need to review FSM for adjustment proceedure as well as wheel bearing adjustment procedure as well.

I assume my drum hubs are factory since there is overspray on them. I did not find a tolerance number, but because 50 years has gone by, it's going to be good practice anyways to just install the new drum hubs and call that good.

[MoparLeo]

Bravo.  The last 20 years of my time in auto repair/service was at Bridgestone/Firestone.   Company not independent stores. We had the most current information on most everything that we worked on. And as ( here it comes) the largest Tire/auto repair company in the world had nothing less than the most current information available. We did this for a living with big liability consequences if we did something wrong. My time at Big-o was probably before you were born. Just a fact. I would recommend factory parts over aftermarket on brakes. The customer mostly voted with his wallet. Aftermarket.. His choice. There are TSB's published by all auto manufacturers on their vehicles. No secrets that only they will know.  You are absolutely correct that you are probably the last generation that will be fixing their own cars. My 18 year old grandson doesn't even have a drivers permit yet and is not interested in driving, Just video games and his tablet,cell phone. Sad.. Good to ask questions, just more to it than that. I strongly recommend that people read more. Get more reference materials on all aspects of car repair, fabrication. Then pass it on.

[kawahonda]

Yea, bulletins are not secrets, but it's unlikely that any place aside from maybe Honda themselves would have looked up a CRV bulletin for a Honda Element.....Honda Element Bulletin is empty since they have been OOP for quite awhile, even though it applies 100% the same. Point being, I've done brakes ever since my first car, and I will do them on every car thereafter.

Yes, I do research. I read the FSM (which mentioned nothing of my pushrod issue/conundrum). I'm still confused what was up with that...is my pushrod "factory" that I have now, and will it work with this mastercylinder? The book won't tell me this. I'm assuming it will, but someone probably needs to measure/picture me up a factory e-body pushrod so I can compare.

"ChrisFix" has a really good video on Drum brakes. I watched all of that before hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5j3sKgNoEs

Kids these days don't care about cars in general. I'm the generation that plays video games, but also spends lots of time in the garage. LOL. Why not both, eh? Still appreciate the work you did on the hinge...

Cheers, MoparLeo!

[MoparLeo]

  I was going to recommend that video but I couldn't get over the fact that the rest of the car looks to be restored and the backing plate is nasty rusty and pitted. Strange. Lithium or synthetic silicone lube on the contact points. A touch on the self adjuster wheels/stars as well. Make sure no grooves are on the backing plate from the shoes rubbing on them. Looks good though and smart not to use riveted brake lining.

[73440]

Chris Fix does good YouTube videos and explanations.

[dodj]

Tomorrow I will do the driver's side, and I will bleed the new master cylinder. I'll go with Dot 5, per this thread's recommendation!

I thought DOT5 didn't play well with DOT3 , which I'm guessing was previously in your car. A few years ago I was contemplating going to DOT5 but common advice at the time was don't do it unless you are changing EVERYTHING. Lines, calipers, wheel cylinders, hoses, etc. While some said just change anyything that has any rubber in it, lines are ok.
No personal experience here, just what I was told in the past.

[Katfish]

DOT 5 is completely compatible with prior brake fluids.
Think about it, there's millions of cars and no way they could sell something new that required a complete change of the whole brake system.

An empty system to start with is best, but not required.

[dodj]

DOT 5 is completely compatible with prior brake fluids.
Think about it, there's millions of cars and no way they could sell something new that required a complete change of the whole brake system.

An empty system to start with is best, but not required.

Are you sure? I was just googling a bit and it still seems the prevailing advice is do not mix DOT 5 silicone fluid with glycol fluid. DOT 5.1 is glycol based and is compatible.