Hello/Colorado Springs Cuda!!!

[Adams1stCuda]

As long as the body numbers match the title, you should be ok.  If the dash from another car was used to replace a bad one in your car, that would explain the wrong VIN plate.  It's happened before.  If your title matches the VIN plate on the dash...you've got some problems. 

Title matches build sheet, dash and engine... 

Didn't pay a whole lot for the car, knowing it wasn't full matching numbers.  Intent is just to have a clean/fun running driver for my wife.

[Burdar]

Unfortunately, that's a big problem.  The BODY numbers(on the rad support and cowl) need to match the title.  Right now, you have a title to a dash pad and engine.  Legally, the body isn't yours.  You need to go to your DMV and see what they require.  They are probably going to do a vehicle search to see if the body #'s come up as stolen.  If not, they will most likely issue another VIN to the car.

[303 Mopar]

Unfortunately, that's a big problem.  The BODY numbers(on the rad support and cowl) need to match the title.  Right now, you have a title to a dash pad and engine.  Legally, the body isn't yours.  You need to go to your DMV and see what they require.  They are probably going to do a vehicle search to see if the body #'s come up as stolen.  If not, they will most likely issue another VIN to the car.

As long as the body numbers match the title, you should be ok.  If the dash from another car was used to replace a bad one in your car, that would explain the wrong VIN plate.  It's happened before.  If your title matches the VIN plate on the dash...you've got some problems. 

Title matches build sheet, dash and engine... 

Didn't pay a whole lot for the car, knowing it wasn't full matching numbers.  Intent is just to have a clean/fun running driver for my wife.

I agree you have an issue that I would address with the PO of the VIN mismatch.  However, Colorado only requires a VIN verification of the VIN on the title with the VIN on the dash and/or door sticker.  They do not look for body numbers.

[Adams1stCuda]

Well, we do know the PO (long time acquaintance of both my father-in-law and wife's god father), so I can call and ask him for more info, but he wasn't misleading when we bought it, he said the front end stamps didn't match...can't remember if he said he also bought it that way. 

Honestly, just want to do whatever is the right thing to do, if that means getting the DMV to run the body numbers and/or reissuing the title.  If CO rules are as 303 Mopar states, then nothing is wrong with the DMV.

Personal goals are not to show quality restore the vehicle or resale it for profit.  We just aim to make it nice, reliable and use it as a fun driver.  Don't ever plan on selling it, but if we ever did, want to make sure we are doing it right.  Also, as far as value, want to know where we are with putting money into it and associated value with the body not matching everything else we have for documentation.

[ec_co]

Welcome! I'm up in Westminster 


the VIN and body # thing can be an issue for sure. the reason being is that someone can steal a very nice looking Cuda and replace the dash from a POS Cuda .... now you have a good Cuda ... and someone that lost one. That is why the dash #s need to match the body #s. doesn't matter if the motor and tranny match, but the body and VIN do. interesting that the build sheet matches, because that means someone purposely changed out the back seat to have the correct build sheet in an incorrect car. something fishy there IMO

just my opinion. I'd have it inspected by CSP (they had to inspect mine and run the #s before I could get a valid title) to validate it and get a re-issued VIN. the bad side, you may very well find that the vehicle was stolen at some point and you'll be SOL.   

[Adams1stCuda]

Welcome! I'm up in Westminster 


the VIN and body # thing can be an issue for sure. the reason being is that someone can steal a very nice looking Cuda and replace the dash from a POS Cuda .... now you have a good Cuda ... and someone that lost one. That is why the dash #s need to match the body #s. doesn't matter if the motor and tranny match, but the body and VIN do. interesting that the build sheet matches, because that means someone purposely changed out the back seat to have the correct build sheet in an incorrect car. something fishy there IMO

just my opinion. I'd have it inspected by CSP (they had to inspect mine and run the #s before I could get a valid title) to validate it and get a re-issued VIN. the bad side, you may very well find that the vehicle was stolen at some point and you'll be SOL.   

Or whomever did the merger just had a build sheet that the dash/engine came from.  Interestingly enough the body is actually blue which matches the build sheet.  Will start by asking the PO for some more info and then talk to the DMV/CSPD to see.  Would they run it with just the last VIN digits on the body stamp?  If nothing comes back, how will they find the full VIN to issue a different title?

[303 Mopar]

Welcome! I'm up in Westminster 


the VIN and body # thing can be an issue for sure. the reason being is that someone can steal a very nice looking Cuda and replace the dash from a POS Cuda .... now you have a good Cuda ... and someone that lost one. That is why the dash #s need to match the body #s. doesn't matter if the motor and tranny match, but the body and VIN do. interesting that the build sheet matches, because that means someone purposely changed out the back seat to have the correct build sheet in an incorrect car. something fishy there IMO

just my opinion. I'd have it inspected by CSP (they had to inspect mine and run the #s before I could get a valid title) to validate it and get a re-issued VIN. the bad side, you may very well find that the vehicle was stolen at some point and you'll be SOL.   

Or whomever did the merger just had a build sheet that the dash/engine came from.  Interestingly enough the body is actually blue which matches the build sheet.  Will start by asking the PO for some more info and then talk to the DMV/CSPD to see.  Would they run it with just the last VIN digits on the body stamp?  If nothing comes back, how will they find the full VIN to issue a different title?

Do you already have CO title?  If so, you just need a transfer of title.

[Adams1stCuda]

I do...DMV took the one with the payment/transfer on it when we registered it and issued a new clean title.  Will they be able to find the full VIN from just the last 6 on the body?

[303 Mopar]

I do...DMV took the one with the payment/transfer on it when we registered it and issued a new clean title.  Will they be able to find the full VIN from just the last 6 on the body?

So you have the title and the car registered to the VIN on the dash that matches the title. The body stampings only show part of the VIN (3B514618 - a '73 Cuda made in Hamtramck plant) whereas your dash VIN is (2B255097 - a '72 Cuda made in Hamtramck plant). From the body stamp you can not see the first 5 digits of the VIN (BH/BS/BP, 23/27, and the engine code). So yes, the Buildsheet and dash VIN plate were transferred from another Cuda, and this is illegal. An example why is taking a 318 Barracuda (BH) and replace the VIN tag from a '70 Hemicuda and then try to sell for way more than what a 318 Barracuda is worth.

To do the right thing is to call CSP as @ec_co said and get this cleared up.  You will either get a new VIN or you car impounded if it is stolen.

@Cuda Cody did a great write up here of the VIN and body stampings.  https://www.e-bodies.org/buying-your-first-e-body/vin-numbers/

[6bblgt]

by the 1973 model year the only first 5-digits of Plymouth E-body VIN choices are:  "xxxxx3B514618"

BH23G - Barracuda w/318
BH23H - Barracuda w/340
BS23G - 'cuda w/318
BS23H - 'cuda w/340

[Cuda Cody]

All states are a little different in the way they look at vehicle VINs.  Most consider the body numbers "partial VINs" and not full vehicle identification numbers.  Times have changed a lot since these cars were built and the way VIN's are treated,  but the main goal still the same.  They are used to stop someone from committing fraud.  So if a person took a body of a barracuda and changed the VIN's to make it a Hemi cuda there would be plenty of evidence of fraud.  Where it gets difficult is when someone replaces parts of a car with other parts of a car.  The "intent" is not normally fraud so this is where it gets in to a gray area.  The laws are normally pretty clear about in the intent needing to be fraud or for profit by deception.  My experience has been that most state inspections focus mostly on the dash VIN, door VIN and if the VIN is stolen.  But it might be best to research this more with your state and see what they say.

[HP2]

..of course there is the possibility the front clip has been replaced due to collision damage or age.  What number is stamped on the trunk rail? That could point to a vin swap or a front end rebuild.  I had a Road Runner once that four different vin numbers/stampings on it because it had major body damage that was repaired with salvage parts. That certainly devalued the car compared to something more whole and with a traceable history, but it also was a reasonable result of saving a valuable car.

Sounds like the seller and your FIL are knowledgeable enough about these cars to have pointed it out to you that they may also know the rest of the story as to why there is a mis-match. I'd start with them before going to law enforcement. The guys in SoCo Mopars are a very above board bunch and I'm sure there probably are a few people there who know the details behind this car. It looks familiar to me and I wonder if I may know a previous owner, but I don't recall any stories about  this particular car. Of course, since I've been in that club for 25 years and have seen a thousand different Mopars pass through the 100s of different members, there is no reason for this one to particularly stick out in my mind.

Yes, in Colorado so long as the vin tag and title match, they do not consider the body stampings as official vin numbers. You certainly can do official research on the car if you really have the urge to do so. State Patrol (CSP) is who will get involved with vin inspections . Colo Spgs Police (CSPD)  typically does not get involved in these types of issues.

The reality of it all is there are numerous vin swapped cars out there and there have been from the first time someone swapped out a damaged E body dash pad. Pointing out the mix of stamped numbers and providing a reasonable price tag wouldn't fall under the definitions of fraud. While vin swapping is Federally illegal, this one is likely old enough and the swap between the two vehicles is similar enough to have never raised anysignificant red flags to anyone along the way. 

Welcome, BTW.

[Adams1stCuda]

I happen to have a friend who's wife is a CSP supervisor and she gave me the number to the dept that handles these things.  I got the car for a pretty low price (IMO), so as Cody said, I don't think there was any attempt to commit fraud on value.  As a person with a quite successful 18+ year military career and a security clearance, I will definitely attempt due process to ensure I am legally compliant...even if that means losing the car.

Though I personally am a big automotive enthusiast, I admittedly don't have a ton of in-depth knowledge about classics past makes, models, years, engines, trans, etc.  I have learned a bunch in the past few weeks. 

Actually much appreciate everyone's information and weighing in on my specific car/issue.  I am one of those people who when they don't have the answer they both try to search to find it as well as seek the input to help get to a solution. 

[ec_co]

fraud is mostly a concern for collectors. the issue with law enforcement is grand larceny. lets say I stole 303's awesome b5blue '70 AAR clone, swapped out the vin tag from my project b5 '70 slant six ... viola, I just saved @ $60k and a ton of work and headaches. 

not saying that is the case here at all, but it's a consideration for the discrepancies. @HP2 there is no trunk stamp. it's the dash VIN, cowl, rad support, door sticker. doors can be removed, it's not likely someone removed a good cowl *and* rad support to fix, and as someone else stated the rear has bumpers also show a '73, so it's more likely that the body is a original '73 and the dash VIN was swapped to the current one that had a good/clean title and build sheet.

now it is certainly possible too that there were 2 cars and parts were merged to make one good car. maybe like my slant 6 they lost the title and it was easier in this case to just use a vin/title to a junker.

I would just be cautious. all may be very fine and good and I hope it is so you can just enjoy it.

[HP2]

I thought E bodies had something like six different stamping locations throughout their structure, but I could be confusing that since I've only ever owned one of them and I haven't bothered to search out its stampings because its collectability is probably the lowest of the low in the E body ranks.

I think we all need to be vigilant about fraudulant cars but also be mindful that there is a pre-existing stock of vin swapped cars. Many of these can't be undone and may have occurred many years ago and we have no way of knowing if it was a simple mistake or a deliberate attempt at mis-representation unless all the records can be traced. Certainly changing a 73 Cuda to a 72 Cuda is so minor, in my mind, it seems to point to an amalgamation of two  similar cars to keep one alive. So long as the price is reflective of these discrepancies compared to the more traceable cars, then that keeps the collectors happy and gives the rest of us a chance at entering the  hobby for less than a house mortgage.

In this case, it was not mis-represented,in fact it was pointed out by the seller,  its over all a solid unit that has been registered and had its title transferred multiple times along the way, and Adam213 got a deal on a car his wife always wanted that they can enjoy with a few minor repairs. Sounds like a win in my book.