No Rebel flags flying?

[HP2]

(snipped)

I was one of those people. Learned something  new today. Thanks Don.
Now. What's the difference between being a rebel, or being a confederate? I thought the confederate states were the 'rebel' states?
Remember I'm Canadian and don't know a lot of American history.

The US are rebels by nature. This began with the America Revolution in 1775-1783  This later manifested itself with the Civil War in 1861-1865. In this war, the terms rebel and confederate were and still are interchangeable. Many southern politicians of the era likened themselves to the original rebels that created the US and felt they were obligated to forcefully resist what they felt was Federal injustice. Additionally, this was at a time were many people felt loyalty to a state was more important than loyalty to the country. This is how the US military was fractured between the two geographies.

Here is my take on it - if you want to be a rebel against  the US Federal government, the US has a long history of many different flags you can chose from - the Sons of Liberty flag, the Gadson Flag, and the Fort Moultrie flag are among those of the original US rebels that have a winning history of defiance and success.  The confederate battle flag, as seen on the General Lee, is also one of those flags associated with rebellion that has a loosing history militarily as well as a very controversial history publicly ever since.   Unlike many of the former flags, the latter has the distinction of expressly being used to by some groups to promote racism and hatred.   Many southern states, who never had anything similar to the battle flag in their state flags anytime before, during or immediately after the confederacy, began incorporated it into their state flags in the early 20th century as a passive-aggressive middle finger  to the Federal government for the ever increasing pressure of racial integration.

13% of the US is black.  Many of them see it as a racist symbol. Since any number of hate groups also use this flag as a devisive element to incite that hatred, then the better angels of our nature dictates we should not casually use such a symbol.  This is no different than a swastika, which has been around for centuries prior to its adoption by socialist Germany in the 1930s. While only 3% of the US is Jewish, we certainly do not go around displaying swastikas without understanding it has an implicit meaning, despite its centuries of meaning otherwise. Symbols matter. Corporations spend billions of dollars a year to create, promote, and protect symbols.  Whether you agree or not, the confederate battle flag falls into this category.

[Skid Row]

  Sorry' I can't accept the comparison. Wasn't a issue till some insane kid murdered 8 church members thin hid behind it.  While true the Rebel flag was displayed more after the war as a defiance to federal over reach, South Carolina displayed it as the finger for The Burning of it's capital during Sherman's march.

[Cuda70-74]

(snipped)

I was one of those people. Learned something  new today. Thanks Don.
Now. What's the difference between being a rebel, or being a confederate? I thought the confederate states were the 'rebel' states?
Remember I'm Canadian and don't know a lot of American history.

The US are rebels by nature. This began with the America Revolution in 1775-1783  This later manifested itself with the Civil War in 1861-1865. In this war, the terms rebel and confederate were and still are interchangeable. Many southern politicians of the era likened themselves to the original rebels that created the US and felt they were obligated to forcefully resist what they felt was Federal injustice. Additionally, this was at a time were many people felt loyalty to a state was more important than loyalty to the country. This is how the US military was fractured between the two geographies.

Here is my take on it - if you want to be a rebel against  the US Federal government, the US has a long history of many different flags you can chose from - the Sons of Liberty flag, the Gadson Flag, and the Fort Moultrie flag are among those of the original US rebels that have a winning history of defiance and success.  The confederate battle flag, as seen on the General Lee, is also one of those flags associated with rebellion that has a loosing history militarily as well as a very controversial history publicly ever since.   Unlike many of the former flags, the latter has the distinction of expressly being used to by some groups to promote racism and hatred.   Many southern states, who never had anything similar to the battle flag in their state flags anytime before, during or immediately after the confederacy, began incorporated it into their state flags in the early 20th century as a passive-aggressive middle finger  to the Federal government for the ever increasing pressure of racial integration.

13% of the US is black.  Many of them see it as a racist symbol. Since any number of hate groups also use this flag as a devisive element to incite that hatred, then the better angels of our nature dictates we should not casually use such a symbol.  This is no different than a swastika, which has been around for centuries prior to its adoption by socialist Germany in the 1930s. While only 3% of the US is Jewish, we certainly do not go around displaying swastikas without understanding it has an implicit meaning, despite its centuries of meaning otherwise. Symbols matter. Corporations spend billions of dollars a year to create, promote, and protect symbols.  Whether you agree or not, the confederate battle flag falls into this category.

Agreed

[Jay Bee]

Uncle Ben (Uncle Ben's rice) might be on the list too. The image could be replaced with Peter Parker's uncle.

[ToxicWolf]

That's sad.  I'm going to miss going to Carlisle in the future, but this is just wrong. Whenever people work to erase history, we all lose.

[Cuda70-74]

That's sad.  I'm going to miss going to Carlisle in the future, but this is just wrong. Whenever people work to erase history, we all lose.

Does that saying also go for German??

[70 Challenger Lover]

Is this memorable poem even taught in schools anymore?


"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"

[Mopar5]

Is this memorable poem even taught in schools anymore?


"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"

That is the creeping incremntalism we have been seeing for years.

[70 Challenger Lover]

An interesting guy at work once likened it to a frog being put into a pot of warm water slowing heating to a boil. Because the change is gradual, it will remain in the water until it cooks to death but drop it in a pot of already hot water and it will sense the danger and jump out.

[Cuda70-74]

Is this memorable poem even taught in schools anymore?


"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"

That's basically a apathetic person

[70 Challenger Lover]

I don't see it as apathy as much as being fearful of getting involved in something you think doesn't concern you only to learn after its too late that it really did concern you all along.

This is happening now. There are groups under attack that are undeserving, law enforcement at the moment. The vast majority of people in this country support law enforcement but won't say it openly because they don't want to endure the backlash by a relatively small group of people who don't. It's easy to sit back and watch an entire industry be gutted like a fish but in the end, it hurts everyone and by the time you realize things have gone too far, you can't easily replace what was lost.

There have been many groups attacked relentlessly in the past few years. Tea Party, supporters of the President and so on. I think the point of the poem is that recognizing something as bad but choosing not to speak up is essentially sanctioning it to a certain degree. I think its messed up that the organizers of the event are banning certain images that are seen as offensive by a tiny group of people in the country. I'd bet money that none of the people who would normally object are even classic cars people. It's simply a cowardly move to pander to people who haven't even looked your way.

[Cuda70-74]

If anybody supports anything thry have to call out the bad behavior like what law enforcement, politicians etc... We can't have selective outrage on certain things and not others. Thats why were in the predicament were in.

[worthywads]

Whatever you choose to call the flag on the Duke Boys General Lee, it is certainly a symbol that true racist in this country use, and have for a long time.  Maybe there are those that aren't racist that have used it, including Hollywood with the Dukes, but since a bunch of racists do use it to spread fear and white supremacy, blame them for ruining it as a simple rebel flag that can't be anymore. 

[70 Challenger Lover]

I think what people have a problem with is the labels. You shouldn't brand something as a symbol of evil and then demand everyone accept your view of it. Every single day, there is something new we aren't allowed to think or speak of. What's next? Who gets to decide what I'm allowed to think or to say? This is simply mob rule out of control.

[worthywads]

I think what people have a problem with is the labels. You shouldn't brand something as a symbol of evil and then demand everyone accept your view of it. Every single day, there is something new we aren't allowed to think or speak of. What's next? Who gets to decide what I'm allowed to think or to say? This is simply mob rule out of control.

If you think that some people can use that flag as a racist flag of white supremacy, and others can just use it as something less toxic, then you should understand that most people can't tell the difference.

Police unions are the only unions that some people think are absolutely necessary, I don't understand that one.  I don't think you understand what you posted.  MAGA is openly against the first 3 on this list.

"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"