Thinking new with Dodge announcement ?

[chargerdon]

I'd be asking how much for a complete battery replacement. Hearing some of the EV's are needing new batteries as soon as 70k miles at a cost of 30k in some cases. True? I'm not sure, but worth checking before you leap.

Where do people come up with these statements?    First off all of the current BEV cars carry an 8 or 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.   So, no if the battery need replacement at 70,000 miles it FREE.    Replacement is for a battery that has lost 30% of its power level.

After the warranties expire past 100,000 miles replacement will depend on the size of the battery but most reports state that by the dealerships the cost will be in the $5,000 to $15000 range.   Also, most expect an average lifespan of between 15-20 years or up to 200,000 miles.   Compare this to the cost of a crate engine and transmission cost of about $6,000 for engine and $3,000 for a transmission.   

[70vert]

@chargerdon
Sadly most people just react, they don't read. There are facts out there!

[MKA]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/08/30/fact-check-dealer-gave-30-000-estimate-replace-volt-battery-electric-car-hybrid/7935230001/

This is the article fact checking the $30k battery replacement on a 12 year old Chevy Volt with 70k miles.  I am sure the age of the battery and how the car was stored and charged is more important than the miles.

To summarize the article, the story is true but it's a one off.   The Volt is discontinued and so is the battery making the battery hard to find.   The article also quotes that the average cost to replace a battery now is $6300 but it also says a 2021 Mustang EV battery is $20k.

Effectively everyone has something right.   It can be very expensive but the technology is rapidly improving and with scale costs will continue to drop perhaps dramatically along with longer battery life .   Caution and research are advised, you don't want to be buying a car or manufacturer that might be discontinued or the one off speciality vehicle that has an expensive design. 

[torredcuda]

or get a good warranty and trade it in right before it runs out.

[E74cuda]

@tparker I think you are on point.  EV sounds good, and we will eventually get there, but the rhetoric that we will be ready in CA by 2030 is a joke - the infrastructure & battery technology is just not there.  We have rolling blackouts in SoCal all the time - WTF?  CA is the 5th largest economy in the world and can't supply stable, consistent energy.  Wind and solar just isn't going to cut it.

And to answer the question, I am waiting for the final production year and will be getting my hands on the highest HP Challenger Dodge makes... and likely a convertible if it is an official Dodge product.

I put in an order for a new 2022 and missed the cut off bye a week or so. I was waiting for the orders for the 2023's to open up but they have been pushing the date back. Now it's suppose to be some time early next year. I've also heard that they are going to make several different models that will only go out to the higher volume dealers to be sold with no ordering available for these models. I think the 2023's will sell out quickly.

[FE5CUDA]

Vote Republican and be done with it.

[70_440-6Cuda]

@tparker I think you are on point.  EV sounds good, and we will eventually get there, but the rhetoric that we will be ready in CA by 2030 is a joke - the infrastructure & battery technology is just not there.  We have rolling blackouts in SoCal all the time - WTF?  CA is the 5th largest economy in the world and can't supply stable, consistent energy.  Wind and solar just isn't going to cut it.

And to answer the question, I am waiting for the final production year and will be getting my hands on the highest HP Challenger Dodge makes... and likely a convertible if it is an official Dodge product.

I put in an order for a new 2022 and missed the cut off bye a week or so. I was waiting for the orders for the 2023's to open up but they have been pushing the date back. Now it's suppose to be some time early next year. I've also heard that they are going to make several different models that will only go out to the higher volume dealers to be sold with no ordering available for these models. I think the 2023's will sell out quickly.

You will find the "volume" dealers colleting the highly desirable cars and then asking 2x sticker price.... had a dealership in SoCal with 16 Dodge Demons... $200K each
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36800736/dodge-demon-for-sale-2021/#:~:text=Jalopnik%20writer%20Lawrence%20Hodge%20discovered,never%20sold%20one%20at%20all.

[MKA]

Vote Republican and be done with it.

We were doing ok having a conversation on the merits and leaving most of the politics out of it.  This can go south real quick.   

[tparker]

hi @70vert

But regardless of the reasons, EV is the future. They absolutely have a lot of potential, even if it's a bit premature right now! You know though, I doubt that there were coast to coast gas stations when ICE vehicles started being "pushed". And certainly the early cars did not have 400+ mile range like today. Etc.!! EV battery life will get better and better every year for the next 10 years. And some come now with a 10 year battery warranty (better than my 2015 JGC with 75k miles that I just dumped due to lifter tik, a problem that plagues the Hemi as well as the v6). The cars will also get less expensive as volume and supply increase, that's just how things work.

I kinda agree. They are the future and us bitching about it is like people bitching about the first cars and saying nothing is like my horse. LOL.  But as for the gas station comment, back then the gas stations grew organically around where the cars where. You didn't have millions of cars and huge interstates. You had few cars and very few places to go early on. Then it grew. Replacing Gas stations with charging stations is a very different problem. Not to mention you will have to plan your long road trips accordingly.

My buddies wife's prius has lasted a lot longer than expected, but my wife read a story where someone bought a EV car only to find out the battery was shot before the expected lifespan and the cost was something like $10k, but the battery was obsolete so finding a replacement wasn't possible, apparently. Sure, that happens with our motors. They die occasionally. A certain percentage will have catastrophic failure. But, EVERY EV battery will die. From my knowledge, there isn't much more that can be done to squeeze more out of the batteries. Of course there could be some break throughs, but last I read it isn't hopeful for anything significant. Let me know if this has changed.

As far as prices coming down, I think not. At least not by anything substantial. Car prices are going through the roof. The average car is $34K+ and keeps rising. The cost of the tech they keep putting into the cars keep the prices high. You would think simplifying the engine and drive train should lower costs, but those costs just get pushed to other areas. I wouldn't hold my breath on them dropping too much. You will probably see things like the Leaf which is the budget model.

I'm just thinking we are trading one set of problems for another. I would like to see EV's grow organically. I think over a short period of time people will migrate to them. I think that is a more sensible approach. In about 10-20 years I feel we will have people telling us how bad the EV vehicles are on the environment. LOL.

[torredcuda]

Demand for lithium is only going to go up as more EVS and other batteries are being made and so will the price, simple supply and demand.

[chargerdon]

"Replacing Gas stations with charging stations is a very different problem. Not to mention you will have to plan your long road trips accordingly."   

Wrong thinking my friends.   With ICE cars we need gas stations...simple as that because none or at least extremely few of us have the option of filling the tank at home.   With BEV cars a huge portion of the charging WILL be done at home overnight when its cheap.   So, we do NOT have to replace the bulk of the gas stations with charging stations, and if we did they would sit idle.    Yeah, Yeah, i know not everyone owns a home and a place to charge their BEV vehicles but a huge portion do, and i can see apartment buildings putting in charging stations with credit card payment in their parking lots.   Long trips,...yep a trip from my home in North Carolina to say Disneyland in California is going to be a problem.   However, with the advances coming in charging technologies I can see the time per day of travel only increasing by about 30 mins for recharging versus filling up the ICE.   

Its coming...things will be different...but then everything keeps changing anyways.   In 1969 I graduated from college and began my career in Computer Programming.   Back then an IBM mainframe was the size of four refrigerators, had processors that are hundreds of times slower than my cell phones, and memory cost about a half million dollars.   Two weeks ago i bought a Micro card for my phone that added 129 GIG of memory for about $6 dollars.    Trust in our scientists, engineers, and yes, even our government...  all will be fine.    But I"M NOT GETTING RID OF MY 1974 Challenger with a stroked 360 that sounds like two million bucks !!!   

L

[Brads70]

Is there enough resources like cobalt, lithium, etc... to make enough batteries to replace all the gasoline engines?  From what I've read there is not? ( I'm no expert on this topic though?)
So either battery technology will evolve to another form or will it be only the really wealthy will own their cars?
Like we will be happy and own nothing sort of a thing? ...... 


We might "own" our beloved old Mopars but will fuel be available to run them? Will it even be " legal" to do so?

My uncle has a country place, that no-one knows about
He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law
Sundays I elude the 'Eyes', and hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire, where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine –
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta, from a better, vanished time
Fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar!
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime...

Wind in my hair –
Shifting and drifting –
Mechanical music
Adrenalin surge –

Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware

Suddenly ahead of me, across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud
With fear and hope, I've got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded
At the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle
At the fireside...

[anlauto]

wow...never knew that song was about a car 

[RUNCHARGER]

Change is going to happen and in some ways it's a good thing.
20 years ago I'd go to Vancouver and wonder why people weren't driving something like a Smart Car or Motorcycles (although it rains too much there for motorcycles). It just didn't make sense to me why city people didn't use something smaller, more efficient and cleaner.
Country folks and northern folks have different needs and live in a different environment. Today gas powered stuff is still the go to for us in the north and people who drive long distances regularly.
That will change and change quickly though. I can see myself getting something different for a city vehicle in about 5 years, by then either electric will be better sorted or there will be another alternative that will work better. I'm keeping my 18 Hemi Ram though until I die. Right now I need to haul stuff and I like going 600 miles in a day on one tank of easily available, fill it in 5 minutes gas.
Am I going to buy a Hellcat for $80k and not drive it thinking that it will be worth $100k when I sell it 20 years later? Heck no, I seen that happen with 1978 Corvette Pacecars and Silver Anniversary editions. Lots of people kept them new and were then able to sell them in a few years at half what they paid.
Buy stuff to drive the wheels off of it, not for investment.

[Racer57]

i can see apartment buildings putting in charging stations with credit card payment in their parking lots.

That will get interesting. Better have a station for each renter. Otherwise, someone plugs in and leaves with a friend or goes to bed. Comes back and their EV is only 1/2 charged.