Thinking new with Dodge announcement ?

[tparker]

Hi @chargerdon ,

"Replacing Gas stations with charging stations is a very different problem. Not to mention you will have to plan your long road trips accordingly."   

Wrong thinking my friends.   With ICE cars we need gas stations...simple as that because none or at least extremely few of us have the option of filling the tank at home.   With BEV cars a huge portion of the charging WILL be done at home overnight when its cheap.   So, we do NOT have to replace the bulk of the gas stations with charging stations, and if we did they would sit idle.    Yeah, Yeah, i know not everyone owns a home and a place to charge their BEV vehicles but a huge portion do, and i can see apartment buildings putting in charging stations with credit card payment in their parking lots.   Long trips,...yep a trip from my home in North Carolina to say Disneyland in California is going to be a problem.   However, with the advances coming in charging technologies I can see the time per day of travel only increasing by about 30 mins for recharging versus filling up the ICE.   

Its coming...things will be different...but then everything keeps changing anyways.   In 1969 I graduated from college and began my career in Computer Programming.   Back then an IBM mainframe was the size of four refrigerators, had processors that are hundreds of times slower than my cell phones, and memory cost about a half million dollars.   Two weeks ago i bought a Micro card for my phone that added 129 GIG of memory for about $6 dollars.    Trust in our scientists, engineers, and yes, even our government...  all will be fine.    But I"M NOT GETTING RID OF MY 1974 Challenger with a stroked 360 that sounds like two million bucks !!!   

L

My comment on gas stations wasn't about converting them to charging stations. That won't work at all. It was actually in reference to how gas stations grew with the expanse of vehicles. In fact, people used to actually buy gas off of trucks, atleast for some period of time. The point was more that today we have to figure out how to grow the supply of charging stations since EVs are not going to grow in the way cars and gas stations originally did. It is a different problem.

Most people won't drive from North Carolina to Sunny California. But many people DO drive from Northern California to southern, or to Oregon. I suppose people drive from New York to DC of DC to Florida. 300 miles is the current long range for EVs. Teslas take 15 minutes to charge for approx 200 miles, but that is supposing there will be fast chargers available. Currently that is not the case. Yes they will improve, but look at the state of various gas stations around the country. Not all have state of the art equipment. I keep hearing people say technology will improve, but honestly, there are limits to the physics. It isn't as simple as saying things will improve. So for longer trips you will have to take a meal break and wait 20 minutes or perhaos and hour or more for the car to charge. May not be a huge deal but it will impact stuff. We have Yosemite out in our neck of the woods. People go out there and spend a week or so driving all over the place. Yosemite can handle 20,000 people per day. How is that going to work in the future? There are limited resources out there and surely not enough chargers will be built. Maybe the good news is less people will go.

Lots of people won't have access to charging at their current location and won't be able to easily charge at home. Many live in apartments that just won't have easy access for every car to charge up. It is just the layout of the buildings. Then you have other places where there are too few parking spots for the cars on the streets. These tend to be older neighborhoods in large towns build around the 20's(od the last century LOL). Sacramento, San Francisco, LA and many of the surrounding areas all have these neighborhoods. And I have seen similar places in other cities across the US over the years. The average person won't have a problem, but many, many will.

Then there is an issue with the hazmat of when EVs crash or spontaneously combust. Those fires are not easy to put out. We just had one last week and the Fire Department had a heck of a time trying to put it out and to prevent the rest of the hillside from going up and starting a giant fire.

I have seen incredible gains in computing technology as well. And as we both know, we have reached the end Moore's Law due to the limitations of physics. Instead of getting more powerful by shrinking and optimizing, they are just stacking more cores. Things are improving but not by the leaps and bounds they used to. Battery tech is apparently up against a similar wall.

EVs are a great addition, but there will be lots of problems for a lot of people if we are forced to jump too early, before we have the resources in place and figure out the various problems. This isn't about bitching about EVs, just pointing out many of the problems. Ack, another rant. Sorry. LOL If I could get a reasonably priced EV that was made of decent quality that could go 400 miles (that is about as far as I really need) then I would consider it. But right now they don't go far enough and I can't afford a decent EV.

[torredcuda]

How long will Lithium supply last?


https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/09/15/how-long-will-the-lithium-supply-last/

[dodj]

  With BEV cars a huge portion of the charging WILL be done at home overnight when its cheap.   

Until the power company raises the overnight power rates.  Supply and demand..

[chargerdon]

Two things.

First, yesterday i played golf with a guy that bought a NEW 2014 Tesla S.    He told me that it has been a fantastic car for him with nearly no problems at all.   He currently has about 160,000 miles on it and is STILL on its original battery pack, and that he hasnt noticed any degradation on it.    He drives it from his home to the golf course a 40 mile trip and back for about 80 miles a day, plugs it in at night and has his smart charger set to charge back to the 90% mark.   That way it will last the longest...i.e...was told by Tesla to try to not drain it below 20% and not to more than 90% on a slow charge routine and that the battery will probably last the life of the car.     He doesnt know and doesnt care what the cost of a full battery replacement would be....   PS...Model S Teslas cost about $100k, so he obviously can afford it.

Two
NO, Battery technology has NOT reached the end of its refinement.   My son is a recruiter for PPG and they are working on new battery designs that wont even use Lithium and are more of a High Energy Capacitor than a battery.   PPG feels that it will be available in the next 5 years.   So the worlds supply of Lithium is only a short time problem.    Here in Raleigh, NC Toyota is building a new Battery plant that will become operational by the end of 2023 to supply all of their batterys for there electrification of their fleet.   It supposedly be able to produce at first the Lithium/Ion batteries and be able to switch to newer Carbon/Iron batteries said to be able to hold up to three times the engergy of a Lithium/Ion to start, and then to the latest Capacitor style batteries.    Made in the good ole USA in North Carolina.    Here is an article in you tube for Super Capacitors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87o8AIldbh4

Ill tell you this...when i floor my 74 Challenger and have it pin my shoulders to the seat its a BLAST with 0-60 times of about 5.2 seconds!!!   I can only imagine what it would feel like to hit 60 in 2.0 or less...wow...   I wish i were only 44 instead of 74 so that i could experience that in a BEV car in the future...    Not to mention that i would get the 30 yards in my golf drives that i lost !!!!  The future sounds awsome to me !!!   

[torredcuda]

While there are some issues with EV technology I think it comes down to many of us find it hard to accept change. Remember when Chrysler went almost all 4 cyl fwd cars? Even though the turbo cars were fast many called them junk, same with four door Chargers etc. because the thinking was it had to be a two door, V8 rear drive to be cool. I think the same way about the newer Chargers and Challengers, even though they are V8 rear drive and can outperform my cuda in almost every way they just don`t have the same feel and soul as an old musclecar and can never replace it. Even if the new electric Charger is faster and out performs a Hellcat it will never be the same as an ICE vehicle. Funny thing is a lot of those same guys have sold or hardly drive thier old cars and instead drive thier new musclecars.

[RUNCHARGER]

Ha, ha: My Dad was probably 50 or 55 and always drove C-bodies in a spirited fashion. I remember he was getting his R-body New Yorker serviced and the dealer kid drove him home in a turbo 2.2 and the kid was driving the heck out of. My dad was always open to modern stuff and pretty quick he had a turbo 2.2 himself. Most people fought the change though.

[torredcuda]

My ex bought a new `87 Daytona Shelby Z, 2.2 turbo, 5 spd, 175 hp, 175 torque, it ran mid 15`s bone stock but there were some of those cars modded to run 13`s and even one Lebaron that ran 11`s and was street driven to the track. She let me take it once in a while to a car show since my Barracuda was still a long ways from being done. At local Mopar club shows the new cars were usually put off by themselves and most of the guys shunned and talked crap about them - they wanted nothing to do with 4 cyl fwd crap boxes. It was a fun car to drive ( when she wasn`t with me) but it was no V8 muscle car.

[Racer57]

BACK TO ORIGINAL QUESTION.... Will you or are you tempted to buy a new muscle car while you can ? 

[torredcuda]

BACK TO ORIGINAL QUESTION.... Will you or are you tempted to buy a new muscle car while you can ? 

Maybe if I had a spare $50k laying around.... which I don`t!

[Brads70]

I went on the Dodge site and "built" a new Challenger. The bill was $129K ( Canadian funds) 
I'll have to wait a week or 2 to see if my financial situation improves! 
I would like to have one if I could though, but I'm satisfied with what I have. 

With the new announcements on all the colour choices I expected to see sublime but nope? Maybe later for next year? I also would rather a 6 speed manual but that was not an option either? If I'm going to spend 129k I don't think it's too much to ask for how I want it?
Funny though after playing with all the colour options I was drawn to F8 green with the tan interior. Not something I thought I would like...?

Our wonderful government after Sept 1st now added an extra 10k tax to any vehicle over 100k so I'd have to move first if I was going to buy one.

[anlauto]

I was thinking the same thing....

[chargerdon]

Went to the NEW car show in Raleigh, NC on Friday. 

First of all...wow..sticker shock...  All of the Fords there, including their small SUV's had stickers north of $50K, The Chevy Bolt BEV was stickering at $37,000   and still equipped decently...95% of the vehicle's there were stickered at North of $50K .   

I sat for the first time in the new E-Mustang.   First of all...shame on Ford for using the Mustang name on it, secondly, it is for an SUV small....  Getting in was a chore...im 6'0 and weigh 220...i had to sit on the seat first, then swing in my legs, and DUCKING as best i could my head to get in...  then once i was in, i felt claustrophic, and even with the seat back the entire way couldnt get comfortable...  Seat was uncomfortable.   I love performance but at what cost????   Once you buy it you still have to drive it.  Also, I hate the E cars display screens...   I WANT GAUGES...     

Then, i went and sat in the new ICE Mustang,  it was a convertible so no ducking the head, but, it wasnt all that comfortable and its sticker was over $70K.   Next i went to Chevy and sat in their Camaro...   i had to be a contortionist to get in there...real difficulty getting my head in...and it wasnt that comforable either...not to mention neither the Mustang or the Camaro had a useable rear seat and it too was priced over $60K. 

I sat in a lot of the cars there including an Alpha Suv, and the new VW BEV car...   All expensive, difficult to get into, and once in mostly uncomfortable.   Then i went to the Dodge floor, and there sat a base RT Challenger with the base 5.7 Hemi.    Right off the bat, it was easy to get in and out of, lots of elbow room and WOW...their drivers seat was extremely comfortable, and even back most of the way, i could still have fit in the rear seat.   Its still great looking, at its price tag was $42,000...the floor rep said that Dodge is giving over $1200 Consumer cash discount and that the dealership would give another $500 making its price at $40,500....   GOOD GRIEF compare this to the Ford Suv at over $50K     AND THEIR discontinuing that gem in one more year...   WHY???   

[PLY474]

A special swinger model was announced.  1000 units.  https://moparinsiders.com/dodge-revives-the-swinger-nameplate-for-its-latest-special-edition-duo/

[PLY474]

My wife wants to order a new Challenger.  We went to the dealer on Friday to talk about it.  Sales rep said ordering for the 2022 model is still in process.  We played around with the dealer's order form webpage and learned that Smoke Show Gray has been removed from the color option list.  He said to expect option and price changes as Dodge changes over to the 2023 model.  He, of course, encouraged us to order ASAP.  She and I are currently feeling indecisive whether to order now or wait a few months.  Does anyone know when 2023 ordering starts?  I read online that 2022 ordering ends sometime around October 22nd, and that 2022 production will run through late December of 2022. 

[E74cuda]

I was told by a dealer that orders for the 2023 Hellcats would not open up until some time after the first of the year.