Anyone here do dizzy rebuilds and recurving?...Plug wires!

[tman]

So now I guess I'm caught between two choices.

Go with a full Rev-N-Ator setup...including new dizzy and coil..and conversion harness.

Or have someone (like mentioned on the thread) convert mine and do the whole recurving thing and at a petronix.

A full Rev-n-ator setup is going to be about $450 + shipping. Does my car have a mounting area for the ECU box or will that require drilling if I wanted to attach to the firewall?

Having mine current single-point dizzy converted to electronic, curved, etc would probably cost $250ish.





Is it worth the extra $200 to get the Rev-n-ator setup? Is there a $200 performance difference? Certainly don't want to be leaving ponies on the table...

I may do this sooner rather than later because yep, not being able to go past 9 BTDC initial does create some quick throttle hesitation under load. Currently, I feel like I'm leaving lots of performance on the table.

Basically, is it worth converting this mopar single-point dizzy in the long run...and it can perform like the others....or is it one of those things that it will "never" perform as good as a new dizzy?

Right now Mancinis has 10% off for either Rev N nator system or FBO.  Promo code is "#LABOR"  For the Rev system it would be $360+shpg. Discount expires Labor day.


http://www.manciniracing.com/reeligcoun.html

[tman]

Another option is getting the Jeg's system that includes everything you need to convert to electronic ignition.  Weak link is the orange box.  But it comes with the Firecore distributor.  The Jegs distributor is just a rebranded Firecore.  You can check it out, but converting to electronic ignition will be an improvement and look stock.  Most folks mount the ecu box on the Firewall.  There are lots of pics of where its mounted.   

https://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Forged-Mopar-Vacuum-Advance-Electronic-Distributors/2392123/10002/-1

[kawahonda]

Does the ICU replace the voltage regulator that's on the firewall now? Looks about the same size.

[kawahonda]

Sounds like what I’m hearing is that I should ditch my stock dizzy. It’s either not worth the effort or cost to get it performing in the 21st century, or that it will never perform lik the newer ones.

Out of curiousity, where are firecore distributors made?

I wouldn’t mind running the jets kit until the orange ICU fails, but that red coil though....ew!

[tman]

It does not replace the VR.  ECU is for ignition system only.  VR is charging system.  Your right about the red coil, can always paint it or keep as a spare.  You can use your own coil, unless that is getting old.  These are the folks that engineered the distributor (see link below).  I believe they have them made somewhere else.  Google Firecore or do a search in any of the forums.  Lots of folks like them including me.  Distributor comes with various springs and adjustable.  I got rid of my stock dist a long time ago.  Some do like to keep points.  Its all about what you as an owner wants to do.   

http://www.firecore50.com/

[kawahonda]

Does the Jeg's Kit come with various springs/adjustable? Assuming that it is the same dizzy as the FireCore.

Assuming that I'd want to set it up at 10 Mechanical, 10 Vacuum Advance. This will allow me to set my initial at 15-16. Is this how most people set them up, or is there an exact art to it? Hopefully you guys can share your settings.

The Jeg's Kit you can get for $230 shipped. And it comes with everything you need including the harness for the conversion...except for an ECU mount and it's unknown whether or not it comes with springs. I kinda like it on the firewall, but I ain't drilling. Is there a bracket or something that someone sells to mount this next to the voltage regulator? Not sure if I'd go through the effort to paint the coil or just store it on a shelf. Dammit why does it have a red coil. So ugly.

The other option is to go for the Rev N Nator using Mancini's deal like you posted. It says that it does come with springs. It has a OE-correct black coil. It has a better ECU, and it has rev limiter. For $130 more...but will still need to order the $30 harness so that I can convert unless it comes with it (doesn't say) so it's roughly $390 + shipping.

I think the Rev N Nator deal looks the best so far as far as robustness and quality. It's the most expensive, but it also seems like the best you can buy. Assuming I will need 1) A wiring harness for the conversion and 2) some sort of bracket. I don't mind mounting it on the back of the intake, but I don't have a "visible" windage tray on my 340. Is there a firewall bracket?

Seems like the Jeg's deal is also a good choice for a bigger savings. Just run that orange box until it fails and then buy a Rev N Nator box to replace it with...

This is going to get expensive fast....but I feel like running at 9 BTDC and way overshooting on my "all in" that this is probably one of the easiest ways to recoup some serious horsepower. If I'm wrong, let me know.

[Topcat]

One more time...

Distributor:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MOPAR-318-340-360-HiRev-Electronic-Ignition-Kit-Resto-OEM-Plymouth-Dodge-Chrys/223117533859?hash=item33f2d762a3:g:YG0AAOSwoRBagwZg:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!94536!US!-1
Ed sells good stuff.

Timing spark balance weight:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Distributor-Spark-Scatter-Fix-340-440-383-Hemi-Dodge-Plymouth-Chrysler/223111568847?hash=item33f27c5dcf:g:TTMAAOSwubFaemtL:sc:USPSPriorityFlatRateBox!94536!US!-1

Coil  & ECU:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FBO-Mopar-Ignition-ECU-Module-HRR688-w-Coil-Ballast-Jumper-J685-Limiter-Plate/222855818080?hash=item33e33deb60:g:QukAAOSwFb5aJqM9

Wires:
https://www.customwiresets.com/firecore50brochure.pdf

Advance Limiter:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-Distributor-Mechanical-Advance-Timing-Limiter/323099910935?hash=item4b3a416317:g:6yAAAOSwQJhUdOgX

Plugs:
Many here like Champion. As I do.

Keeping with the Mopar performance Distributor will be an advantage.
Parts will always be able to be found no matter where you go or live. 

FBO box is interchangeable connectors to MP ECU box as well.

[tman]

Does the Jeg's Kit come with various springs/adjustable? Assuming that it is the same dizzy as the FireCore.

Assuming that I'd want to set it up at 10 Mechanical, 10 Vacuum Advance. This will allow me to set my initial at 15-16. Is this how most people set them up, or is there an exact art to it? Hopefully you guys can share your settings.

The Jeg's Kit you can get for $230 shipped. And it comes with everything you need including the harness for the conversion...except for an ECU mount and it's unknown whether or not it comes with springs. I kinda like it on the firewall, but I ain't drilling. Is there a bracket or something that someone sells to mount this next to the voltage regulator? Not sure if I'd go through the effort to paint the coil or just store it on a shelf. Dammit why does it have a red coil. So ugly.

The other option is to go for the Rev N Nator using Mancini's deal like you posted. It says that it does come with springs. It has a OE-correct black coil. It has a better ECU, and it has rev limiter. For $130 more...but will still need to order the $30 harness so that I can convert unless it comes with it (doesn't say) so it's roughly $390 + shipping.

I think the Rev N Nator deal looks the best so far as far as robustness and quality. It's the most expensive, but it also seems like the best you can buy. Assuming I will need 1) A wiring harness for the conversion and 2) some sort of bracket. I don't mind mounting it on the back of the intake, but I don't have a "visible" windage tray on my 340. Is there a firewall bracket?

Seems like the Jeg's deal is also a good choice for a bigger savings. Just run that orange box until it fails and then buy a Rev N Nator box to replace it with...

This is going to get expensive fast....but I feel like running at 9 BTDC and way overshooting on my "all in" that this is probably one of the easiest ways to recoup some serious horsepower. If I'm wrong, let me know.

It does comes with extra springs in the Jegs kit.  Just pull up that distributor and there is a tab with install instructions.  What I can say about the Mopar performance kit:  It will be better then what you have.  I had that system with the MP Chrome box that my 440-6 came with.  That was also the system I ended up throwing away and got the Rev system to replace it.  Chrome box is my spare.  My MP electronic ignition kit was made in 2001, so maybe the newer ones are better.  Just don't know. 

[kawahonda]

I'll ask this again: Is there a reason why my dizzy cannot be converted to work with the Rev-N-Nator, new coil, etc?

It seems like any other dizzy that you buy is not made in the USA.

Is it worth converting mine to perform with the big dogs, or is it even possible?

If the answer is "no", then I pretty much know what to do.

[Brads70]

FYI I'm using a simple  jobber rebuild distributor and the FBO limiter plate kit with an MSD box, I see no reason why you couldn't keep your distributor and do the same but with the Revenator box?
IMO, sometimes the " trick stuff" is overkill....... designed more for performance of how fast your wallet can open. 

[tman]

I'll ask this again: Is there a reason why my dizzy cannot be converted to work with the Rev-N-Nator, new coil, etc?

It seems like any other dizzy that you buy is not made in the USA.

Is it worth converting mine to perform with the big dogs, or is it even possible?

If the answer is "no", then I pretty much know what to do.

Yes you can keep your dist and add Pertronix Igniter.  This will not correct your curve issues, so you need to correct that.  I believe the correct one is the 1381A.  Im not familiar with dependability of this addon.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Pertronix/751/1381A/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710531860&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=44693592161&CATCI=aud-194567928791:pla-224222639831&CATARGETID=230006180039217495&cadevice=c&gclid=CjwKCAjwwo7cBRBwEiwAMEoXPBI9oEm5Auxy2Z-PGq7eVnMcwxpjxhABBWPeXI-ztSwM6vsUYtyDLhoCA1AQAvD_BwE

http://shop.pertronix.com/pertronix-1381a-ignitor-chrysler-8-cyl.html#.W4QoyehKiUk

Crude video install
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUUHAjuXao4

[kawahonda]

OK, so if I grab that FireCore kit on Mancini, what else will I need to have everything I need?

1) Wires. Do I really need to replace my wires...at least initially?

2) Bracket. I'll need a mounting bracket. I'm assuming that my 1970 Challenger has the firewall mounting holes that the 72-74's have...so that reproduction firewall bracket should work?

3) Timing Spark Balance Weight and Mechanical Limiter Plate---Assuming I do not need this with the firecore dizzy.

4) Wiring Harness conversion kit. I assume just about any will work.

5) Balast resister. Do I need to relpace mine?

I had a chat with my "acquaintance" on the east cost and he basically shoe'd me off for asking questions and said it has to be petronix or nothing, and all the stuff above is "trick of the week" and that I'm wasting money and I need to be "educated" (which is true). So yea....

Does the FireCore dizzy come with a performance curve, and all I would need to do is drop in the right spring (hopefully in one try) and adjust the vacuum canister?

[7212Mopar]

I got the firecore distributor and the RevNnator separately at different time. I think the package offered by RT Garage is cheaper than buying things separate. I am using the MSD Blaster coil though. I am not running vacuum advance. CP and RT Garage both do not recommend running vacuum advance.

[kawahonda]

I've learned a lot about ignitions over the past few days. Thanks for bearing with me guys. The more I learn, the better I can become with tuning.

This is my current knowledge/understanding after talking to a distributor pro, so please give feedback. What I've written below disagrees with this: http://tvmoparclub.com/files/tech/Mopar%20Timing.pdf

"Total Timing" does not/should not include what the vacuum advance is doing. That's a separate timing "additive" for fuel efficiency that actives when the engine is not under load--think about highway cruising when the car is producing a lot of vacuum.

Total timing is Initial + Mechanical. That's it! When you turn on your car in "park" and rev it up to check timing, you're not giving the car any load, and the vacuum advance is simply going to activate. That's why you will see 47-55 degrees of timing with cars with vacuum advance. This should not be confused with "all-in" timing!

So my "initial" timing at 9 BTDC is actually 26 degrees for TOTAL TIMING since you should not include the vacuum advance. That's pretty low, as most of these cars from what I've gathered love 35 total. Right now, I can bet money that I'm losing serious ponies with my current timing. Coming out of the hole will be slow. Burning rubber will take more effort than necessary.

But if I increase the initial any more, I get pinging at WOT. Why is that? It's not the vacuum advance, since vacuum advance "shuts off" when there is load. The reason is because of the stock curving on these distributors.

I've decided to reuse my current distributor and have it rebuilt/recurved/pentronix by a pro. I have no doubt that it will perform extremely well and will be reliable--and dialed in better than any "off the shelf" could get. Plus, you get to keep the original Chrysler Dizzy with the part tag and all! With Rev N Nator or FPO, you lose vacuum advance. Some may be fine with that. For my car, I'm trying to walk a fine line of stock vs not stock and I think this is the "cooler" option for the car. Performance difference between a built-up stock dizzy vs a FireCore seems debatable. No hard numbers. I think the answer is "both" can perform very well.

Vacuum advance does not/should not hurt performance in any way--I think there's lots of misconceptions about it. Losing your vacuum advance does not allow you to set more "initial" timing like I had thought.

Chebby article, but a very good and simple read about Vacuum advance. "There has yet to be a reason given to not run vacuum advance." It's not an evil thing, and it doesn't hurt performance. http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/additional-tech/1601-everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-vacuum-advance-and-ignition-timing/

For me, reusing my current dizzy, getting it dialed in, is a "win" in the looks" department, "win" in the cost department, and a "win" in the performance department. That's my conclusion!

[73_Cuda_4_Me]

What do you have for a carburetor?

Pinging can also be caused by lean fuel mixture...

I have an Eddy 1406 on my 340, and had to change the step-up springs when I put in the aftermarket A/C... I went to the lightest spring, and immediately had spark knock during light to moderate acceleration while cruising... I had gone from an 8" vacuum step-up down to a 3" vac spring, then bumped back up to a 5", and ping went away...