Custom Headers...

[ledphoot]

I reached out to a few custom header builders in the Nor Cal area. They both said they need my car for ~2 weeks and the cost of the headers will be ~$6000.... I was a bit taken back by the quotes, I have never looked in to custom headers before.. I was fully prepared to spend $3000 and maybe a stretch to $4000.. But $6000+?????? I dunno. But I guess it won't get any cheaper.

Anybody have custom headers made? How long ago? How bad did it dent your wallet?

[Filthy Filbert]

Why do you need custom headers?  Unless you're putting an LS into an E-body, there are off the shelf headers available for pretty much every engine combo isn't there?

I don't know if $6k is fair market or not; but keep in mind that you're paying for someone to fit tubes together in a tight space, with a fit up good enough that they can be cleanly welded together. 

Fitting the pipes is a fine art type skill.   Being able to cleanly weld them together to be leak free and not look like metal bird poop is also a very skilled trade.

I know that the skills needed are expensive enough that I wouldn't want to even consider having custom headers made. Good luck with your project.

[ledphoot]

I have TTI step headers.. But I also have a decked squared block topped with aluminum heads, Milodon Road Race oil pan, QA1 front suspension, Borgeson steering box, 1.12 torsion bars and a tremec TKO transmission. I already had to have the TTI headers modified due to all of these stacked tolerances... It looked OK when first assembled, but now as I drive the car, romp on the throttle a bit and things settle in the clearance I thought I had is mostly gone. I see evidence of light contact between the driver side header and the torsion bar. I will not be leaving it like this. I am hoping when I talk to the local fabricator I have used for other work in the past I will get a quote that's closer to my original projection, if not I will just save a little more and pay the piper his due.

[Filthy Filbert]

I hope you can get it all sorted out within your budget. That's a lot of aftermarket parts!

It must be in your suspension; because unless you cut 1/4" off your decks, squaring them up shouldn't drop the heads so low that headers that use to fit suddenly don't. There are a lot of big and small blocks running aluminum heads from mopar performance to edelbrock to Indy and they've all got headers that fit. 

I'm not doubting what you're saying, I'm just surprised you're having as much trouble as you are.   

[autoxcuda]

Light contact.

Let it self clear and move on with life.

You can buy 6 sets of TTI headers for $6K

I run 1.14 t-bars in my 68 Barracuda and it rubbed a little. That was 10 years ago.

[7212Mopar]

My 416 stroker is using ProComp heads. Pretty much same stuffs as yours except I am running 727 and Hotchikis 1.1 TB. The TTI headers never have problem with the TB. One tube over the Milodon road race pan is tight. All it took to fix that was a hammer to flatten the tube a little to get more clearance. I get the hammer out before I even think about spending $6k for some minor interference.

[HP2]

I'm not a big fan of beating stuff into clearance unless its absolutely necessary. I'm also a cheapskate so I could never justify $6k for a set of headers.

Yes, you have a mix of parts, but nothing that is so out of whack that you shouldn't be able to adjust things to be better. Especially considering some of the parts you have were designed for additional clearance over stock.  There is some minor variation built into motor mounts. Rubber isolators compress. Tolerance around bolt holes and fasters can vary wildly. Personally, I'd look at loosening mounting hardware, shifting major components within that tolerance, and retorquing. For that matter, sometime a .125" shim in exactly the right location can create .75" worth of clearance over a multiplied distance.

I'd also consider finding a set of Schumacher style Tri-Y headers to swap in before I'd go six large into custom tubes. You are not a class racer where every .01 second of time at the dragstrip matters for winning, so even if you give up 20 horsepower for the swap from TTI to Schumacher, it will go largely unnoticed by everyone, including the butt dyno.

[7212Mopar]

Tube sitting on top of the Milodon road race pan requires a hammer. No shim or motor mount change will solve that one.

[ledphoot]

Tube sitting on top of the Milodon road race pan requires a hammer. No shim or motor mount change will solve that one.

My Milodon Road Race Pan had to be cut / welded by a fabricator. That's the problem with hot rodding, nothing fits, putting this car together would have been a lot easier if I went stock. Sure it's a lot more fun with all the "upgrades" but getting everything to work has been a considerable challenge.

[Brads70]

Tube sitting on top of the Milodon road race pan requires a hammer. No shim or motor mount change will solve that one.

My Milodon Road Race Pan had to be cut / welded by a fabricator. That's the problem with hot rodding, nothing fits, putting this car together would have been a lot easier if I went stock. Sure it's a lot more fun with all the "upgrades" but getting everything to work has been a considerable challenge.

What engine combo? I'm using the Milodon RR pan with no mods?  451" ....

[ledphoot]

I have a small block stroker 416, decked / squared, Edlebrock aluminum heads, Milodon Road Race Pan, QA1 suspension, 1.12 torsion bars, tremoc tko etc. etc..


I don't believe my fitment issues have much to do with any 1 of these modifications, it's the drift caused by the stacked tolerances that adds up to fitment problems. I am going to try some different motor mounts, possibly with a shim and install a torque strap to keep the motor from moving quite as much and see how it goes. If I can get back to 3/8" clearance I had from headers to torsion bars and then keep it from moving I will leave it.

I was considering custom headers because that way they'd fit perfect and they look really nice.. I'd easily drop $3K for them. $6K and I'd need to hide that from my wife

I am going to try to make what I have work first. I will make a video of where I am at now and after making some changes I will make another to show the difference.

Thank you all for the great suggestions.

[HP2]

That may not work for all combinations, but I'd encourage anyone to try rearranging the furniture before buying custom couches.

I'd also note with my headers, I rewelded the flange on each tube on the engine side of the header. I did this for a couple of reasons; 1st, to make the area wider to better ensure better gasket seal. With the porting in my heads and the thin factory weld bead around this flange, I thought it was a recipe for leaks down the road. The wider flange area gave me better chances of sealing. With this build up of material, around .125 thick, it also gave me the opportunity to grind/mill this weld bead at an angle to allow me to alter where the collector ended up. This took a bit of test fitting along the way to keep it away from the pan without getting into the torsion bar.  Adding .030 at the flange can easily result  in .375 of movement at the collector.

With my  combination I have an early 360 block that has also been squared and decked. I have iron, high swirl heads from the mid 90s. I'm running Hooker 5115, 1.75 primary tube headers. My engine has been lifted .25 inch on the mounts. I've put solid engine mounts in place of the rubber, I've added reinforcing to the stock K frame. Torsion bars are 1.24". Steering box is a OEM sized Firm Feel unit being pressurized by an aftermarket, Sweet Mfg pump.  I've got a lot of deviations from original. I also have the Milodon road race pan. Careful installation, some shimming, and shifting around of components got everything to play together fine. Is it tight, oh you betcha. Putting the headers in was a major PITA. But attention to detail in assembly and adjustments on those interference points prevented me from having to hammer anything.

[JonH]

It would seem to me the simplest solution would be to modify the offending tube or tubes on the existing headers. You already have a solid foundation. Find a local fabricator to do the modifications you need. I went this route many years ago on a previous car. It would probably be less than 1k to modify and recoat what you already have...

[ledphoot]

That's actually a really good idea.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

It would seem to me the simplest solution would be to modify the offending tube or tubes on the existing headers. You already have a solid foundation. Find a local fabricator to do the modifications you need. I went this route many years ago on a previous car. It would probably be less than 1k to modify and recoat what you already have...

This would be the best bet. I strategically dented my TTIs to get what I needed out of them, there's been testing to show there's no measurable performance difference when doing that.

To the original question, $6k for custom headers seems fair. It takes an enormous amount of time (and skill that costs $$$) to make a set.