392 Hemi build

[RacerX]

This will be the power for the 1971 'Cuda I am restoring.    I am intending to start this thread
here to document the process of preparing and installing this motor in the 'cuda.    There is a
lot of research to share, and some discoveries will be made from trial and error.   The overall
goal is modern EFI drivetrain with no irreversible modifications to the car. 

This will differ from the path many folks take in that it is a build and re-purposing of a used
engine, not a crate motor.   Crate motors are great but not everyone has that kind of cash
and the way they are shipped you are paying for parts that you can't use in a retrofit such as
the manifolds, oil pan and flywheel for example.   

What we have here is a 392 from a 2016 Ram 2500 pickup.   The motor is in good shape with
about 65k miles.   The truck caught fire or something like that but the motor was undamaged.
It was a good deal otherwise I may have held out for a motor from a car to reduce the number
of changes required to make it work.    However, there are benefits to using a 6.4 truck motor--
it is the "BGE" variant (Big Gas Engine) and is supposed to be extra heavy duty block and heads
following the hellcat specs.   The reason being it is in a truck, working hard, towing, etc....

First order of business is the timing cover is for a truck with EGR coolers and dual alternators and
such and it will not be appropriate for car use.    We will be changing it for the timing cover and
water pump for a 2016 6.4 SRT Challenger, although the pieces seem to be the same on all car hemi
engines of this era.    In most cases when ordering OEM parts to swap from truck to car, I order for a
2016 Challenger.   Same year, but car instead of truck.   I will update this with part numbers as
the project progresses.

We also need to address the oil filter adapter.  The truck adapter had an integral pre-cooler and
lines coming off of it for a grille mounted cooler.  Big, unwieldy and not going to work in a car. 
Many folks will block off the filter mount on the block and relocate the filter elsewhere.   I am
trying to avoid that.    To that end, some folks are using the 45 degree oil filter adapter from
Jeep Commanders and other similar vehicles.   The downside is they have to use a super short
stubby oil filter to clear the k-member.   I am hoping to avoid that issue by using the 90 degree
oil filter adapter, as shown in the picture.   I have not yet tested it with the k-member in place
but measurements suggest it will work fine and allow a full size filter to be used.   The oil will
spill all over the k-frame when changing the filter, but hey we've been doing for decades with
the old big block motors so why change now    lol

The motor mounts are the Bouchillon pieces and seem to fit with a few microns to spare.   

For exhaust the goal is to avoid headers.   The TTI pieces are nice, but quite pricey and that
cash could be put to better use elsewhere in the project.   The stock truck 6.4 puts out over
400HP on iron log manifolds and that is plenty in a small car like a 'cuda.   We are not going
racing.   We just want a fun, reliable car so don't care too much about performance hit with
manifolds versus headers.   The manifolds that will do the job here are found only on the
2009-10 Jeep Commander and Grand Cherokee.   This is gets us manifolds with the large ports
that match the later heads.

For engine control I am looking at the Holley Terminator X unit.   It supports the VVT of the
late model engines and gets us away from having to reprogram a mopar computer to delete
the security key stuff.   It is also substantially smaller than a mopar ECU and tons fewer wires
to deal with.

The transmission will be a 46RE.   Yes, that is correct... "E"  not H....   I have a 46RH (A518) waiting
in the garage and was going to use it but making the overdrive and lockup work automatically
requires cumbersome add-ons.   I learned that the Holley Terminator X can directly control the
46RE so that makes it a no-brainer.    Picked one up at the local u-pull-it for $100 and will rebuild
it,  perhaps doing a separate thread for that if anyone is interested.   

Oil pan will be the Holley cast aluminum unit.   It is leaps and bounds above the Milodon pan in
appearance and quality for roughly the same price.   

Just test fitting external parts on the motor at the moment to help formulate the game plan.   Next
steps for the motor will be to tear it down, check the specs and freshen up as necessary.

[FSHTAIL]

This is EXACTLY the route that I'm going after researching what the 392 Truck engines are..       
Truck Hemi is the only way to avoid the steep "Hemi Tax"

Can you go into what you paid for the car stuff to swap on to?   
Are you planning on using the Mopar Muscle harness kit? 
Thanks

[RUNCHARGER]

I agree: Thanks in advance for the info. I'm looking for a truck 6.4 myself, planning to swap into an A-body and this info will help a ton.

[Skdmark]

 
Will be following along. Good luck!

[SRT392]

do you have part numbers for the Holly cast oil pan??  who did you get it thru and also interested in the trans conversion if you start a thread on that...

[RacerX]

do you have part numbers for the Holly cast oil pan??  who did you get it thru and also interested in the trans conversion if you start a thread on that...

The Holley oil pan part number is 302-61 for the 2009-up engines with VVT or 302-60 for non-VVT.

The only difference between the two kits is the pickup.

Very nice cast aluminum pan with o-ring gasket and also includes windage tray.

I got mine on sale from Summit, but you can also order directly from Holley.

https://www.holley.com/products/engine_swap_parts/hemi_swap_systems/1966-74_mopar_b-body_gen_iii_hemi_swap_components/oil_pans/parts/302-61

[RacerX]

This is EXACTLY the route that I'm going after researching what the 392 Truck engines are..       
Truck Hemi is the only way to avoid the steep "Hemi Tax"

Can you go into what you paid for the car stuff to swap on to?   
Are you planning on using the Mopar Muscle harness kit? 
Thanks

So far the heavy hitter for the truck -> car conversion is the timing cover.    However,
at $211 new from a Dodge dealer it wasn't that bad considering the size of the part and
the machine work involved in manufacturing it.  It includes the o-ring gasket, temp
sensor and crank oil seal already installed.

I also purchased a new water pump from the dealer at $168 which is a bit pricey but
wanted to go "new" with an item like that.   It could be had for less from a place like
Rock Auto or Autozone, etc...

The exhaust manifolds are still available new from Chrysler if they can't be found in the
junkyard.

68416971AB       Timing Case Cover           $211
68346916AA       Water pump                    $168

53013857AD       Exhaust Manifold, Left     $116
53013858AD       Exhaust Manifold, Right   $116


The 90 degree filter adapter is expensive from the dealer at $155 but can be found on
2013-18 Ram pickups with the 5.7 hemi.

04893402AB      Adapter, oil filter

[anlauto]

The Holley oil pan part number is 302-61 for the 2009-up engines with VVT or 302-60 for non-VVT.

The only difference between the two kits is the pickup.

@RacerX can I ask what VVT stands for? I bought 302-60 for my crate 392, and was surprised when to oil pick-up didn't quite fit....I had to make it work....now I read that I might have just ordered the wrong one not knowing ?

[JS29]

Variable Valve Timing   V V T 

[anlauto]

Thanks JS, that's what I was kinda thinking....I guess is a year thing, pre-2009 vs 2009+     I should have read the fine print before ordering .
It's a real nice oil pan, and the issue wasn't that hard to fix

[RacerX]

Thanks JS, that's what I was kinda thinking....I guess is a year thing, pre-2009 vs 2009+     I should have read the fine print before ordering .
It's a real nice oil pan, and the issue wasn't that hard to fix

Yes, VVT is variable valve timing.    It can be disabled but I am planning to leave it.

I had ordered the non-VVT oil pan kit because I did not expect to have a newer hemi
for the project.   Then this truck motor popped up at a good price so that changed that.

The only difference in the kits is the pickup and it is available separately from Holley and
isn't expensive.

[RacerX]

The crankshaft damper has a different part number between car and truck.   It was expected that they
would be different, but a comparison is required to see what the difference is in case it is subtle and the
truck piece can be used.

Unfortunately that is not the case...   The one dimension that I figured might be different between truck
and car, diameter of the belt pulley, is the same on both.   The overall length of the damper is longer on
the truck, presumably to clear larger water pump and accessory drive.   The part that mates to the crank
is the same on both, and while it will install on the crank and seal properly, the pulleys will not line up.

The car damper also appears to have two rubber damping belts rather than the one in the truck damper.

The car damper I am comparing to is part number 5038473AA, which is listed for 6.4 engines from 2011
to present.   It is pricey from the dealer at $196 so finding a good used one probably the best bet here.

I expect a 5.7 damper will also work which will open up some  options for sourcing the part.   The timing
cover is the same part number for both 5.7 and 6.4 engines and the aftermarket dampers are not engine
specific, being listed for both 5.7 and 6.4


Side note:
Even with swapping parts this project will still come out ahead versus purchasing a similar condition 6.4
from a car.   As @Chris D.  mentioned car motors carry a steep "hemi tax" and even wore out core motors
command a big price.   I expect using truck motors for retro-swaps will become more and more popular
because of this.    I figure at the end of it all I will still end up probably 50% less investment than the
comparable car motor and have one just as good if not better.

[anlauto]

After all this work, how will the complete cost of your build compare to a new crate motor  at $8500 ?

https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/product/gen-iii-392-hemi-6_4-production-assembly/

[RacerX]

After all this work, how will the complete cost of your build compare to a new crate motor  at $8500 ?

https://www.rosevillemoparts.com/product/gen-iii-392-hemi-6_4-production-assembly/

Well, most of the work is nothing different than what you would do for any used engine.  The
difference here is some of the parts will be changed for the "car" versions during the process.

The main things to change are the timing cover, water pump, crank damper, and heater pipes.
The serpentine belt tensioner and idler pulley are the same between car and truck motors.

I won't mention the exhaust because the crate motor comes with manifolds that won't work for
an e-body swap and would need to be changed also.

The used motor itself is the largest variable for costing...  I paid $1200 for this one but even
at $2000 it would still come out far ahead even if I put another $2000 into parts (overhaul
parts included, not just conversion).    I anticipate my total parts will be less. 

Of course not included is parts that would be common to any G3 swap such as ECU, alternator,
power steering pump, A/C, radiator, fans, etc....

[Purepony]

This is awesome!!!
Can't wait to see this till the end. I might end up going this route since my 360 is almost about dead