392 Hemi build

[xx88man]

Awesome thread. Thanks for documenting this. I'm following along   

[RacerX]

Some detailed updates will be coming soon on the motor build, but wanted to
drop these here for now...

Some more pieces of the puzzle are on hand...     

[Filthy Filbert]

OOH.   I like that intake.    I've been shying away from the idea of a gen 3 hemi swap in my 70, but only because I want the "old school look" and not a modern looking engine covered in sensors and plastic sheets. 

I look forward to seeing how 'old school' this gen 3 can be dressed up. 

[Purepony]

Can't thank you enough for sharing this

[RacerX]

Finally had some time to finish tearing the engine down.   

My lovely assistant worked on the lifters...     

This is a MDS engine and we will not be using that so it will be disabled.  To do this, we change to non-MDS lifters, non-MDS cam, and change out the four solenoids on top the engine for plastic plugs.    Challengers with the 6.4 and manual trans got the non-MDS engine so that is the reference vehicle for obtaining the parts.

Heads looked good but were dropped at the machine shop for a once-over.

Rest of the engine looks good.   Spotless inside.  Doesn't look like a 66,000 mile motor.  A far cry from the engines I tore down in the 80s.    I guess oil quality has come a long way.     Bearings look nice, almost no wear on the rod bearings.   Not sure why the number four main bearing is red.   That is a bit odd.   

Gone are the days of the maltese cross and other hieroglyphics stamped on the pad near the distributor...  on these they stamp under/oversize info on the crank.   A B or C.   B is standard, A is slightly under, C is slightly over.   One would imagine some gray-beard with a micrometer (the "PB" hand-written on the crank?) and three tubs of bearings spending his days in the factory selecting the best fit...   but probably a machine does it.   

The passenger side motor mount will not fit without some grinding of that circular boss on the side of the block.  I believe it serves no purpose outside the factory anyway--  used only for fixturing during machining/assembly.

Having just changed a rear main seal in-car on a 440, I had to include the G3 hemi oil seal.  Thank you sooo much Chrysler!   I never want to do a old-style main seal ever again!     

[Filthy Filbert]

Looks good!

Yes, today's oils are better, but also, computer controlled fuel injection runs a LOT cleaner; and doesn't "boil over" when you shut it down, spilling fuel out of the bowl down into the intake to be sucked into the engine on the next start up; so the rings never get washed down with raw fuel and keep a seal much longer

[Katfish]

Following along too, Gen3 is in the near future for me too.
Appreciate you taking the time to document the process and obstacles along the way.

Thx

[RacerX]

Following along too, Gen3 is in the near future for me too.
Appreciate you taking the time to document the process and obstacles along the way.

Thx

Thanks for the encouragement guys!    I figure most guys here are familiar with the particulars of the
average V8 motor but for many the G3 hemi is a new experience so it is nice to try to document
the process and note where it differs from the old school motors... 

[Cuda416]

Having a 392 sitting on a cart in the shop for my project, I'm going to be paying a lot of attention as well. I haven't even looked up the specs really and just now saw the main bearing tolerances are between .0009 and .002!?  Damn that's tight and a sure sign of how far the machining in high production lines as come as well as the better oils etc. Damn..  lol.

Thanks for documenting this.

-=C

[Cuda416]

One would imagine some gray-beard with a micrometer (the "PB" hand-written on the crank?) and three tubs of bearings spending his days in the factory selecting the best fit...   but probably a machine does it.   

Pretty sure it's a close relative of the pinball wizard, checking the fit by feel...

[RacerX]

With the holidays out of the way and most of the other things that were hindering progress also out of the
way, we can finally show a bit of movement with this part of the project....

Block is back from the machine shop, cylinders are nice and fresh, block is squeaky clean, but is the wrong
color.

I am used to painting the old motors as a complete unit after assembly, but with the plan to leave the bare
aluminum parts (heads, timing cover, water pump, etc) unpainted, that is not possible and painting needs
to happen before assembly.

Once the block was the proper color, assembly could begin.   First up is the crankshaft.   Clearances on these
engines are very tight, so all will be checked.   Using plasti-gauge all five main bearings were found to be
within specification (0.0009 - 0.002).    Slow going with torquing the caps down, removing them, checking
the measurement, then putting them back again but very important steps.   The replacement bearings are
the same size code ones that were removed--  BCBCC    (with "B" being standard and "C" being 0.008 oversize)
and true to the stamping on the crank they were the correct combination.   Some credit here goes to the crank
which was still in perfect condition and only received a very light polish at the machine shop.    Will do the same
procedure with the connecting rod bearings.

Momentum will build quickly now as it goes back together.     Next step will be pistons and gapping the rings before
they go in....

[Cuda416]

The tight tolerances in these things is nutz compared to older iron and makes me wonder if this is why so many spin bearings. I believe the correct oil is 0-40 (<-- fixed it) wt and I could easily see someone thinking it's no big deal, shoving 20-50 in because that's what they always done did, then starving the bearings.... 

Can't wait to get started on my own. Like others have already said, I'm glad someone is taking the time to document these things.

[RacerX]

The tight tolerances in these things is nutz compared to older iron and makes me wonder if this is why so many spin bearings. I believe the correct oil is 0-40 (<-- fixed it) wt and I could easily see someone thinking it's no big deal, shoving 20-50 in because that's what they always done did, then starving the bearings.... 

Can't wait to get started on my own. Like others have already said, I'm glad someone is taking the time to document these things.

I just looked it up and you are correct, 0w40 is recommended for the 6.4L hemi.    Oil is critical in these especially if you have a
motor with the MDS system.   I am removing the MDS but the tight tolerances still dictate a light oil.

I mis-stated the clearances in my post above...  it is actually tighter for the 6.4 at 0.0005 - 0.0016      dang these are some small
numbers!    All five main bearings measured at 0.0015 or less so I am good to go.   Measuring clearances is important with any engine
build but even more so with these.

I think for the spun bearings it comes down to poor/lack of maintenance and/or driving habits.   Some may be bad luck or dud from
the factory but I think the majority can probably be traced to operator error.  At the very least not changing oil often enough or using
the wrong viscosity or grade.

[RacerX]

Some progress on the engine...   

Using the 90 degree oil filter adapter here, flying against the wind of the prevailing opinions which
seem to be use remote filter or the 45 degree adapter neither of which are an ideal solution.   

The 90 degree adapter is available from the dealer or the junkyard, used on 2013-18 pickups with
the 5.7.   Part number is 4893402AB

Adapter has an oil temp sensor on the back of it, this has to go for motor mount clearance.    Hex
plug a couple bucks at the dealer solved the issue.

Test fit with the K member.    Looks good.   Settles right down on the mounts and plenty of clearance
around the motor.    On the passenger side motor mount the nut on the mount for the K member bolt
needs to be ground off and welded to the front of the mount because the oil filter blocks inserting the
bolt from the front.

Oil filter position looks good.   Plenty of clearance, and could even use a longer filter if wanted.   Not
sure why everyone is hung up on the remote mount and the 45 degree mount.    Remote mount is
a hassle with more connections and where to put the filter, the 45 degree adapter still has the filter
pointing at the K member and limits your access and the size of filter.   On the 45 degree adapter you
still need to shave some or all of the drip shelf off of it so you lose the one real advantage of that
adapter.    The filter position with the 90 degree adapter looks just like a big block filter, just on the
passenger side instead of the driver side.   There is still some clearance so looks like one could cut a
2 liter soda bottle and make a funnel to guide the oil away from the K member when changing the filter.

[Katfish]

Thx for.the update.
I'm wondering how to get the motor mount bolt in with the oil filter adapter in the way?
I have the 45 degree and doesn't look possible.
So what to do
1) try and mount the adapter after engine is installed?
2) bolt mount to k-member and try and bolt that to metal bracket after dropping motor in?

Both look to be tough with not much room to work?