Best aftermarket suspension kit for pro touring 1970 Challenger

[Paul A]

I about to embark on my 1970 Challenger and a morning looking to go pro touring with it. I'm looking for opinions, experience, and advice on upgrading the front and rear suspension. I'm looking for a well engineered complete system that is complete. Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks!

[Brads70]

You can do quite a lot with the stock style set up. Lots of aftermarket suppliers such as Firm Feel, Hotchkis etc that can supply needed parts to enhance the stock set up.
I'm not convinced any of the aftermarket engineered systems that replace the stock design are any better than stock. Other than they look trick.

[7212Mopar]

I upgraded my suspension with a mixed of aftermarket stuffs from Hotchkis, PST, Borgeson etc. reinforced the k frame and lower control arms. Brakes are from Dr Diff. It is not a complete engineered kit but retains the factory style setup. It seems to work much better than stock but I have not yet push it on the road. I would talk to Bergman Autocraft, the guy auto cross and know his stuff. For a complete kit, I had always been impressed with XV Motorsport that I think is still in business. The Transformer kit from Magnumforce looks kind of heavy.

[Chryco Psycho]

 
Most aftermarket systems want to go to front steer rack & pinion , there is no correct lower ball joint to do this & every system I have explored is worse than stock .
Often Mustang II parts are used but that is decades old Pinto parts , not an upgrade IMO 
The only advantage to coil over springs is vast choice of spring rate but the chassis is not designed to support them properly .
Personally I like the T bar it has the best weight distribution in the chassis & is adjustable with a variety of spring rates available .
as above there are a lot of parts that can be changed out to improve the stock system without redesigning the hole system , go for a ride in Brads Chall & you will be amazed

[dave73]

What are you looking to do with the car? I basically have the full Hotchkis TVS kit on my car and it's amazing for spirited driving in an almost 50 year old car.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

Sticky tires and Hotchkis. I'm not aware of any "well engineered" systems, unless XV still sells parts.

Anything else appears to just be packaging fancy parts however they fit [coilovers and rack n pinion].

The responses were dismal when I inquired about just where the "improvements" were made on some of these tubular setups. Roll center changes, bump steer, Ackerman, camber curve, etc...

If you want those parts so you feel like you have a super duper "pro touring" car, then great. But don't expect it to handle or ride any better. The average Joe or Jane has no idea how to properly test and tune coilovers.


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[7212Mopar]

Hotchikis Superbowl sale Feb 1st to Feb 3rd, up to 25% off. Sale ends after the game.

[dave73]

Hotchikis Superbowl sale Feb 1st to Feb 3rd, up to 25% off. Sale ends after the game.

The hotchkis sale prices online are usually the same as year round regular prices from stores like summit, jegs and sometimes amazon.

[challengermaniac]

Wow, I expected this conversation to go very deep (and it still may) given that in addition to my 70 Challenger, I also have a 69 Camaro and I must tell you that the suspension options are amazing!  With the Camaro, you can start with a zero cost repositioning the A arms by 3/4 of an inch to reduce bump steer, then go onto coil overs, Hotchkiss and RideTech swap-outs of the sway bars, control arms and ball joints and then onto a completely new subframe swap with rack and pinion steering and advanced disc brakes and top it off with a four link rear-end assembly that eliminates the leaf springs!

So, how deep can one go with the e body suspension?

[7212Mopar]

https://xvengineering.com

See if this is what you are looking for. There are videos in Youtube under XV Motorsports. I chose to keep the Mopar configuration for my car so don't have any experience with rack and pinion and four links setup.

[76orangewagon]

Here's my vote for a pro touring suspension :

http://www.moparsuspension.com/suspension-parts/HDK+70+to+74+E+Body+K+frame+package.php

Denny ( the owner of HDK) drove 2+ hours to my house on a prior build for specific measurements on my set up for a  custom "Super Slammer" version of his front K member, unlike other similiar looking suspensions on the market, he uses a hoop to support the shock tower area which allows his system to use a longer shock and coil over spring for a better ride.

[HP2]

Wow, I expected this conversation to go very deep (and it still may) given that in addition to my 70 Challenger, I also have a 69 Camaro and I must tell you that the suspension options are amazing!  With the Camaro, you can start with a zero cost repositioning the A arms by 3/4 of an inch to reduce bump steer, then go onto coil overs, Hotchkiss and RideTech swap-outs of the sway bars, control arms and ball joints and then onto a completely new subframe swap with rack and pinion steering and advanced disc brakes and top it off with a four link rear-end assembly that eliminates the leaf springs!

So, how deep can one go with the e body suspension?

Well, you have to also understand that the engineering of the GM suspension of the era was probably 10 years behind the design of the Mopar suspension, so out of necessity it has had aftermarket development  being done to it since 1967.  The Guldstrand mod you speak of as the zero cost change was something done to every SCCA Camaro from 1967 to 1970 to overcome the factory positive camber flaw. Add into that the myriad number of bump steer and conflicting arc problems that occurred with that design as well as the design after 1970, and there are a number of ways a GM set up needed improvement.  By comparison, the biggest issues with the Mopar design was simply the caster/camber interdependence and the torsion bar/tie rod interference. Even the Mopar leaf spring design had several significant advantages over GM and Ford and still offer performance on par with some link systems.

Sheer numbers also mean that demand for  GM suspension options are much more profitable business to be in that making Mopar stuff. With the proliferation of GM suspensions systems in grass roots competition venues over the last 40 years, everybody and their brother offers numerous and  inexpensive suspension parts. Control arms can be picked up for $50 each and springs are $30 each. Compare that to a Mopar at $150 each by comparison and you can see who there is less competition. Mopar options for suspension updates all but disappeared by 1990 and had virtually no aftermarket development until the last 15-18 years.

You can go as deep on the Mopar as you can with the Camaro, it just isn't as cheap and there are not as many option. It also may introduce some compromises into the Mopar system if you go with piecemeal updates instead of a whole package swap. Even a package swap may not produce significant systemic improvements compared to the dollars spent when comparing GM to Mopar because the Mopar is starting at a higher baseline.

So, I'd echo dave73chally and ask if you have a definitive purpose in mind that would direct specific changes. If you simply want to ditch the OEM stuff and have a modern system that is shiny and impressive looking (and that is a legitimate desire as well) then you can pickup whatever suits your fancy and matches you wallet.

So, leaders in upgrades to OEM designs are Hotchkis, Firm Feel, QA1, and PST.

Offerings in aftermarket systems are Alterkation, Hemi Denny, Control Freaks, XV Engineering (not motosports or racing, these different entities) and Magnumforce.

If you want to go over the top and basically want a skinned race car, Ron Sutton and Howe would be the leaders in this approach.

[dave73]

I think HP2 nailed it. You can go as far as your wallet will take you. There is going to always be more aftermarket support for Camaros then e-bodies. I think the ebody production numbers are somewhere around a 1/4 of the Camaro.

My take was, I'm going to upgrade as much as I can, without destroying my wallet and also with the ability to go back to bone stock if I ever desired to. The hotchkis stuff does a great job of being bolt on with minimal to no modifications needed. You can also look into US Cartool for various body stiffening options.

[Brads70]

Wow, I expected this conversation to go very deep (and it still may) given that in addition to my 70 Challenger, I also have a 69 Camaro and I must tell you that the suspension options are amazing!  With the Camaro, you can start with a zero cost repositioning the A arms by 3/4 of an inch to reduce bump steer, then go onto coil overs, Hotchkiss and RideTech swap-outs of the sway bars, control arms and ball joints and then onto a completely new subframe swap with rack and pinion steering and advanced disc brakes and top it off with a four link rear-end assembly that eliminates the leaf springs!

So, how deep can one go with the e body suspension?

So, leaders in upgrades to OEM designs are Hotchkis, Firm Feel, QA1, and PST.

Offerings in aftermarket systems are Alterkation, Hemi Denny, Control Freaks, XV Engineering (not motosports or racing, these different entities) and Magnumforce.

I'd add in Carl Gerst. He builds some nice stuff. Talked to him at Carlisle a few times.
  http://gerstsuspensions.com/

I found the bumpsteer in the stock E-Body set up is something that needs correction. Watch the Vanishing point movie when he is driving thru the desert, front wheels are waving at the camera. LOL Torsions bar design is great, what's not to like , simple, cheap durable reliable, long wearing, weight down low in chassis and behind the front wheels. 10-15 years ago torsion bar options were not to plentiful but Firm Feel has that covered now. Firm Feel bars are quality built, reliable, repeatable, consistent, unlike Mopar offerings.... same with Mopar leaf springs. For a cruise nite type car they are adequate, if your wanting handling stay away from them.  Factory cars were horribly undersprung and shock technology and availability has dramatically improved. Your budget will be the determining factor in what you can spend. You can spend 2-3k and have a dramatically different handling car from factory. Keep in mind all those aftermarket suppliers are a business to make money or they wouldn't exist. Most people are like crows, attracted to the shiny stuff. Shiny stuff sells.... Research Hotchkis Challenger, it does pretty well for the money spent!   
Here is what I did. If it helps....
https://forum.e-bodies.org/wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-and-steering/12/-using-c-body-spindles-on-an-e-body-and-a-body-lcas-and-viper-calipers/58/

[challengermaniac]

Wow, I expected this conversation to go very deep (and it still may) given that in addition to my 70 Challenger, I also have a 69 Camaro and I must tell you that the suspension options are amazing!  With the Camaro, you can start with a zero cost repositioning the A arms by 3/4 of an inch to reduce bump steer, then go onto coil overs, Hotchkiss and RideTech swap-outs of the sway bars, control arms and ball joints and then onto a completely new subframe swap with rack and pinion steering and advanced disc brakes and top it off with a four link rear-end assembly that eliminates the leaf springs!

So, how deep can one go with the e body suspension?

Well, you have to also understand that the engineering of the GM suspension of the era was probably 10 years behind the design of the Mopar suspension, so out of necessity it has had aftermarket development  being done to it since 1967.  The Guldstrand mod you speak of as the zero cost change was something done to every SCCA Camaro from 1967 to 1970 to overcome the factory positive camber flaw. Add into that the myriad number of bump steer and conflicting arc problems that occurred with that design as well as the design after 1970, and there are a number of ways a GM set up needed improvement.  By comparison, the biggest issues with the Mopar design was simply the caster/camber interdependence and the torsion bar/tie rod interference. Even the Mopar leaf spring design had several significant advantages over GM and Ford and still offer performance on par with some link systems.

Sheer numbers also mean that demand for  GM suspension options are much more profitable business to be in that making Mopar stuff. With the proliferation of GM suspensions systems in grass roots competition venues over the last 40 years, everybody and their brother offers numerous and  inexpensive suspension parts. Control arms can be picked up for $50 each and springs are $30 each. Compare that to a Mopar at $150 each by comparison and you can see who there is less competition. Mopar options for suspension updates all but disappeared by 1990 and had virtually no aftermarket development until the last 15-18 years.

You can go as deep on the Mopar as you can with the Camaro, it just isn't as cheap and there are not as many option. It also may introduce some compromises into the Mopar system if you go with piecemeal updates instead of a whole package swap. Even a package swap may not produce significant systemic improvements compared to the dollars spent when comparing GM to Mopar because the Mopar is starting at a higher baseline.

So, I'd echo dave73chally and ask if you have a definitive purpose in mind that would direct specific changes. If you simply want to ditch the OEM stuff and have a modern system that is shiny and impressive looking (and that is a legitimate desire as well) then you can pickup whatever suits your fancy and matches you wallet.

So, leaders in upgrades to OEM designs are Hotchkis, Firm Feel, QA1, and PST.

Offerings in aftermarket systems are Alterkation, Hemi Denny, Control Freaks, XV Engineering (not motosports or racing, these different entities) and Magnumforce.

If you want to go over the top and basically want a skinned race car, Ron Sutton and Howe would be the leaders in this approach.

Wow, and thank you and Brads70 for capturing all of this detail.  It makes me feel good about keeping my stock Mopar suspension which as you noted, handles much better than my stock GM suspension!

Paul A., hope the team has given you some good feedback to work with and consider on your original post project!