Work Estimate

[gzig5]

I'm hoping some of you that have been there and done that can give me a ballpark estimate on the hours to complete some structural body work.  I'm trying to get an estimate from the shop but they are hesitant to give me a number.  I need to have an idea of what it might be before I can move forward though.  So to simplify things lets say I deliver the car stripped down and fresh from a dip.  The work entails replacing passenger side inner and outer rocker and the A-pillar panel the hinges bolt to.  The car took a hit in this area and it was previously repaired but lets assume that the frame is straight and we are just replacing the poorly repaired panels.  Additional work would be the installation of the Dynacorn rear half that consists of the trunk pan, rear seat pan, and rear frame rails in one assembled piece ready to go in.   I know there are a ton of unknowns but as presented how many hours to do the rough install work for these panels?  I would take over all the final prep for paint in addition to all the other work the car needs.

[JS29]

I would be prepared for 40-50 hours. especially if they clamp it to a frame machine, and hang parts to check gaps and such. And use weld threw primer, paint back side of the stuff you have no access to.     

[anlauto]

First off, inner/outer rocker is one of the most integral part of the uni-body system, then you add the entire rear floor and frame rail section.   You make no mention of the trunk floor extensions, floor pans inside the car where they meet the rocker, and the condition of the firewall where it meets the door posts. Do you want new quarter panels at the same time ?
It's nice to weld in that new one piece rear section, but typically the inner wheel houses will need repair, as well the tail light panel etc...everywhere the new pan has to weld to. Same story with the inner rockers.

There's no wonder why the body shop is reluctant to give you an estimate when there's so many unknowns, maybe they'll have a better idea with the car stripped and dipped.

I 1000% agree that a car with this much major surgery requires a frame table for sure, to be done correct.

I would guestimate 150-200 hours . @$50/hr = $10K

[76orangewagon]

Here is the AMD installation center link that will give you a good estimate of price on the labor and parts. 

https://www.amdinstallation.com/estimator/index.html#/

[Shane Kelley]

There is so much unforeseen stuff doing structure and bodywork. I used to give estimates way back in the day and lost my ass every time. Now it's just time and materials. Yes that does make it tough for somebody trying to land in a certain budget. But I think you will find most high quality shops will land in that category.

[anlauto]

Story Time:
I restored a 1970 Cuda for one of my customers, but my metal guy was pretty booked up at the time, so I went to my #2 shop.

Both the owner of the shop and his lead metal guy looked at the shell of the car BEFORE the paint was removed and estimated about 150 hours for the repair it needed. Then I had the shell media blasted.....The three of us walked around the car for almost an hour talking about every spot on the car that needed to be addressed. The spots were marked with masking tape, marked with the estimated hours per area, and the metal guy kept a count on his clip board....I had never seen this method done before, but I had agreed with the time allotted for every little area as we went along....

It was hard to argue with this method of such a detailed estimate. HOWEVER those number added up to 267 hours.

So moral of the story.....If the shop's owner had of stuck with his first ballpark estimate BEFORE the car was stripped....he would have lost his shirt as Shane just mentioned....AND there can always be a lot of rust or dent issues hiding when the car is still wearing paint/seam sealer/undercoating etc...I don't think any shop would give you and accurate estimate up front...

....and this is where you hear horror stories of shops saying one price to get you in the door, then they rip it apart, and the price doubles.

My complete restoration estimates always start with a "ballpark" amount and that price DOES NOT include rust repair....that's always on top.

[JS29]

And was the panel fit and gaps ballpark as-well, or did the 267 hours include toughs being proper. 

[Jocigar]

As a consumer in process, I would advise;

-Frame shop, needs to be on suspension    transport to and from plus work  1.5k
-cut out the obvious rot
-blast and see what you really have 2k
-prep and put in epoxy primer 1.5k   

so you are at ~5k just to know what you are working with and this will give you better idea of where you are headed.

At this point get on the same page with shop;  a pin hole or small rot may be something you spot weld or patch and grind, but the shop may tell you its faster or more cost effective to replace the entire panel or part or they don't want the liability of having anything under the surface coming back after the job is finished.

Take inner fender for example when you outsource the work;  cut, patch, grind, primer may take someone 6 hours plus materials, where as new inner fender is 150 and maybe 3 hours to install.

A shop can charge $50 an hour and break everything out in hours; receive car, document car, take measurements on car, remove suspension from car, store parts, place car a jig, cut and weld re-enforcement tube for car, etc

While another shop may charge $100 an hour and give you invoice of; cut out trunk pan unit and install new unit and actually come out less $$ than the $50 an hour shop.

From a prudent standpoint, I would add at least 50% if not double the figure you come up with as an estimate and be sure that is digestible to you before you start.   

Hopefully you will end up on target don't mean to sound pessimistic or discouraging.   

Best of luck with your project

[70 Challenger Lover]

I've done the exact work you describe myself at home and it is a big task. No matter how simple it seems, there will be project creep. I'd think a pro would need 50 hours to do it right. If I were a pro, I'd never lock myself in on such an unknown. If I did, it would be a well written estimate spelling out what the work entails plus what it wouldn't cover.

If it were me, I'd write the estimate as so many hours to tear down, clean and prep for new metal and nothing more. Once that bill was settled, then I'd write a new one to install the new metal. If he wrote it for both and found additional problems, the two of you would argue about the secondary estimate to fix the new problems found along the way and he risks not getting paid for some work already done.

I can totally see why guys charge by the hour and avoid estimates of the unknown. Of course the problem with that is they just take their time and milk customers for thousands month after month.

[anlauto]

And was the panel fit and gaps ballpark as-well, or did the 267 hours include toughs being proper. 

Thanks for asking. In my story the 267 hours was just the rust repair to the shell, that didn't include the mounting of doors, font clip etc... That's where the body shop comes in.

[soundcontrol]

Here is the AMD installation center link that will give you a good estimate of price on the labor and parts. 

https://www.amdinstallation.com/estimator/index.html#/

That estimate page seems to do only the inner fenders...
Would be cool to see what they charge for quarters and trunk floors etc.

[gzig5]

First off, inner/outer rocker is one of the most integral part of the uni-body system, then you add the entire rear floor and frame rail section.   You make no mention of the trunk floor extensions, floor pans inside the car where they meet the rocker, and the condition of the firewall where it meets the door posts. Do you want new quarter panels at the same time ?
It's nice to weld in that new one piece rear section, but typically the inner wheel houses will need repair, as well the tail light panel etc...everywhere the new pan has to weld to. Same story with the inner rockers.

There's no wonder why the body shop is reluctant to give you an estimate when there's so many unknowns, maybe they'll have a better idea with the car stripped and dipped.

I 1000% agree that a car with this much major surgery requires a frame table for sure, to be done correct.

I would guestimate 150-200 hours . @$50/hr = $10K

All good points and I agree that in reality there are many unknowns, but unless I have an idea of what it might start at, I can't even start.  I wish it was at $50/hr.  Try $93/hr on for size and you will understand my trepidation to going in open ended. They are rough quoting ~$5k just for the chemical dip on a car that I deliver stripped down, which seems high.  That's why I tried to give a bounded scenario.  My intention was to get this core work done and add in things like the trunk extensions that make sense to do at the same time.

[JS29]

@gzig5  $93.00 per hour! the insurance company's pay $50.00 per hour flat rate. Not just my shop, any and all bodyshop's  That's it, More for frame pulling but no were near that price.   

[70 Challenger Lover]

Years back, I had a paint guy give me quotes in stages with me settling the bill after completion of each step. It didn't keep the costs down but it did keep my trust in him high. For instance, I needed quarters, he gave me a quote just to remove the old ones and prep everything. Once that job was done, it was obvious the drop offs and a few other things needed attention so a new quote was made for that. Lastly, we did a final quote to reinstall the new quarters. It kept him from losing money on a job he underbid and kept me from bleeding out an hourly rate while workers took their sweet time at my expense. I thought it was a fair way to do a job and to this day, I still recommend the guy as being honest and dependable. Aren't enough of those guys in the trade if you ask me.

The only problem with doing a job like yours in that way is you can't easily take the car elsewhere if you don't like the next quote but at least you could stop a job in midstream without lawsuits, lost money and hard feelings. Just finish a stage, pay him, and go your separate ways if need be.

[Bullitt-]

       I recall a place in North Carolina that several years ago would do a complete "body in White" for 14K for basically anything it needed rust wise.. a quick search took me to US Cartool    https://uscartool.com/   The link to the program didn't work for me today....