No Rebel flags flying?

[1 Wild R/T]

I think what people have a problem with is the labels. You shouldn't brand something as a symbol of evil and then demand everyone accept your view of it. Every single day, there is something new we aren't allowed to think or speak of. What's next? Who gets to decide what I'm allowed to think or to say? This is simply mob rule out of control.

Yup... Freedom of speech has not been taken away, and as long as we have people who support our constitution it shall remain....

Burning books & trashing statues to deny our past, re-writing our history... Creating a new history with no connection to the truth...  These are not things done in a free society... 

Taking away our freedom to congregate while allowing protesters freedom to congregate is a huge red flag... As far as anyone telling me that medical professionals don't support the rioters...  I won't bother to link Fox or any other conservative source... Here's CNN....

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/health/health-care-open-letter-protests-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

[70 Challenger Lover]

At the beginning of the COVID restrictions, there were very small groups of protesters here and there. Many people, particularly medical professionals, were outraged that these people would dare to put others at risk by protesting the restrictions. Some called for arrests to be made of the protesters who were about as peaceful as it gets.

Mere months later, we have easily a 100xs that many protesters around the nation and these same experts change their tune saying it's worth the risk because this cause is good and pure and just. I don't have faith in our leaders anymore and certainly not in these experts.

[worthywads]

Clear to me, there is a difference between condemning the public celebration of not wearing masks while protesting against stay-home, and encouraging safeguards against COVID spread while peacefully protesting.

This from the CNN article posted above.

"Staying at home, social distancing, and public masking are effective at minimizing the spread of COVID-19. To the extent possible, we support the application of these public health best practices during demonstrations that call attention to the pervasive lethal force of white supremacy," the letter says.
"However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from demonstrators' ability to gather and demand change. This should not be confused with a permissive stance on all gatherings, particularly protests against stay-home orders."

[HP2]

The Mommy complex is a bit out of control with this generation of do-gooders. Hard to believe that only a few generations ago 18 year olds were going to war and 16 and 17 year olds were lying about their age to go to war.

18 year olds are still going to war. Demographics of the US Armed Forces show that easily 75+% of them are under the age of 30.

The history of America is being erased to appease the few.  That is too bad. I keep hearing slavery was made or started in America.  Obviously many cultures had slaves before America was a stain in our founding Fathers underwear.

That's sad.  I'm going to miss going to Carlisle in the future, but this is just wrong. Whenever people work to erase history, we all lose.

No one is erasing history. There is no movement to eliminate teachings of the Civil war. No one is saying we shouldn't learn about the KKK or neo-nazis. No one is saying having a rebel flag is a crime.  No one is saying we have to not learn about Robert Lee or Nathan Forrest.  Knowing about all these things is actually important.  The flag topic  is about stopping the casual use of  a symbol that has been used to manifest hate.  Statues and popular product images are separate topics, but again, removing them from popular view is within the context of understanding why they appeared there in the first place, which may have been altruistic at heart, but still has a broader impact of watering down the percieved offensiveness.

Sorry' I can't accept the comparison. Wasn't a issue till some insane kid murdered 8 church members thin hid behind it.  While true the Rebel flag was displayed more after the war as a defiance to federal over reach, South Carolina displayed it as the finger for The Burning of it's capital during Sherman's march.

You know, you are probably right. This is an off base comparison. The swastika was used by numerous human cultures around the globe for a thousand years signifying good luck and divinity. It only took the nazis a dozen years subverted it to such a level that the vast majority of the world has curtailed its use. 

By comparison, the rebel flag was born out of conflict as a battlefield ID. It was adopted by the KKK not longer after the Civil War, has been prolifically used by them since, was later openly displayed in defiance of de-segregation and used by counter protesters of the civil rights movement. It has only enjoyed a less controversial stint through the 1970-80s when it began to be promoted as a regional pride symbol and was plastered on numerous musical albums by artists. But one also has to ask that just because you don't understand or agree with the implications of the use of a symbol, that doesn't mean those issue may not exist.  It was born from conflict and promoted by such the majority of its existence. Can it exist in duality? Perhaps, but unlikely. Swastikas still appear in the Indian sub-continent area on numerous religious institutions.  But they do have a thousand year history on their side. The rebel flag does not have that fall back position.

I think what people have a problem with is the labels. You shouldn't brand something as a symbol of evil and then demand everyone accept your view of it. Every single day, there is something new we aren't allowed to think or speak of. What's next? Who gets to decide what I'm allowed to think or to say? This is simply mob rule out of control.

Labels allow us to compartmentalize things we need to quickly adapt and understand. As human beings,we are obligated to try to improve, to further explore those boxes of labels and to constantly understand and evolve them. We can't be static if we are going to be better.  To some, the unwillingness to examine what this flag may mean to a fairly large percentage of Americans is seen as  be unwilling to advance those thoughts and understand another point of view. You can find numerous polls that have shown that the perception of what this flags means has changed over the last four decades. Unfortunately, we do not have those polls for the previous century, so we have to look at the public domain and see how it was used and the majority of that history has been controversial to outright violent.

I think what a lot of people have a problem with is change. Typically things have evolved and changed over time so we can gradually do the above and adapt our views.  In this case, the change is occurring significantly faster and way outside people's comfort zone.  However, in the case of this flag, the change never really evolved until late and through that change, its background intent was never purged. If, the rebel flag's use in pop culture through the 70-80s saw a similar reduction in use by hate groups, then  there would be an argument here for its continued use as a pop icon.  Unfortunately, it is still used extensively by racist organizations that  use it to rally similar thinkers.  We should all be cognizant of the fact that casual use of symbols can have a significant impact on some people or groups.

[torredcuda]

We rebelled agaisnt the British to create this country, we almost completely wiped out the native Indians and probably would have if they didn`t sign treatys and give up thier land - under various early versions of the American flag. I understand the point the rebel flag or Stars and Bars have had more than thier share of controversy but if we cave to every person "offended" by thier interpretation of soemthing, be it a statue, flag, police etc. then we are in trouble as a free country although I`m afraid we are well on way up that path.

[HP_Cuda]

I'd like to point out that more American lives were lost in the Civil war than in World War II.

If we continue to harbor the ill will of eras gone by then we continue to live in the past.

No one has said to forget history.

[torredcuda]

From the time Europeans arrived on American shores, the frontier—the edge territory between white man's civilization and the untamed natural world—became a shared space of vast, clashing differences that led the U.S. government to authorize over 1,500 wars, attacks and raids on Indians, the most of any country in the world against its indigenous people. By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 indigenous people remained, a sharp decline from the estimated 5 million to 15 million living in North America when Columbus arrived in 1492.

Many died from diseases that were brought over that they had no immunity to but many were killed. Do we ban the American flag also because of that?

[DeathProofCuda]

Many died from diseases that were brought over that they had no immunity to but many were killed. Do we ban the American flag also because of that?

Not yet, but it is probably in the works.

[Joegrapes]

I'm a Yankee and I had a rebel flag beach towel when I was kid. There's no denying it's a cool looking flag. But there's also no denying that it's a symbol of the confederacy that rebelled against their own country in a bid to keep the institution of slavery. I would hope that no one would think that slavery is anything but a bad thing. They lost. In any other country Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee would have been swinging from a rope. Americans are a compassionate people and after the insanity of the Civil War was over rebels were told to go home to their families and carry on their lives. That history will never be forgotten but it's about time we put away the flags and statues of the confederacy and concentrate on that compassion.

[70 Challenger Lover]

Everyone has something they are offended by. Get over it. We don't ban the color blue because "bloods" object to it or the color red because "crips" object to it or lion images because early Christians were frequently fed to lions as entertainment or the cross symbol because non Christians object to it. These objections are very real and heartfelt to some but we can't keep banning things because a loud chorus thinks we should. It's one thing to be insensitive to others but it's another to cram your personal feelings down the throats of others. If someone objects to something, they have a solution; Turn around and walk away. It's bullshit to expect the rest of the country to clear the landscape of any symbol you find objectionable. Once you start doing that, then really the loudest voice controls the day. That isn't right. That is un-American. Think about it. Banning a symbol is only one step away from banning speech. How is it acceptable that the First Amendment allows me to say hurtful things but a symbol can be banned? If we are truly wanting to smooth out the ruffled feelings of certain groups in our society, then we should go all the way and regulate free speech to avoid hurt feelings.

I have a better idea; get over it and mind your own business. Live where you feel safest. Shop where you choose. Be around the people you like. Avoid those you don't. Tune out what you don't care to hear.

[ToxicWolf]

When I was commenting earlier about people trying to remove history, I was actually talking about the history of our Mopars. Not the history of our country. The Mopar with the flag on it in the Dukes of Hazard is part of our Mopar history. Just like the white Challenger in Vanishing Point. The reason i said I'm not going to Carlisle again is because they just erased a part of our CAR history.  What would you say if they banned hemis because of air pollution.

[CudaMoparRay]

What would you say if they banned hemis because of air pollution.

They did, didn't they?
In 1972 that's why our beloved 72 to 74  e-bodies could not have a hemi option 

[ToxicWolf]

What would you say if they banned hemis because of air pollution.

They did, didn't they?
In 1972 that's why our beloved 72 to 74  e-bodies could not have a hemi option 

Forgot about that. I special ordered a 74 and whined that I couldn't get a hemi in it. 

[chargerdon]

What would you say if they banned hemis because of air pollution.

They did, didn't they?
In 1972 that's why our beloved 72 to 74  e-bodies could not have a hemi option 

Forgot about that. I special ordered a 74 and whined that I couldn't get a hemi in it. 

At least Mopar didn't cave in and "de-tune the Hemi's" to run on 87 octane unleaded fuel !!   And now a 392 Hemi puts out 485 HP...feeding an 8 gear auto...and would blow the proverbial doors off of the old 426 Hemi...       Heck they even sound good !!

[torredcuda]

I'm a Yankee and I had a rebel flag beach towel when I was kid. There's no denying it's a cool looking flag. But there's also no denying that it's a symbol of the confederacy that rebelled against their own country in a bid to keep the institution of slavery. I would hope that no one would think that slavery is anything but a bad thing. They lost. In any other country Jefferson Davis and Robert E Lee would have been swinging from a rope. Americans are a compassionate people and after the insanity of the Civil War was over rebels were told to go home to their families and carry on their lives. That history will never be forgotten but it's about time we put away the flags and statues of the confederacy and concentrate on that compassion.

The main issue which brought on the civil war was states rights over federal government. Yes slavery was one of the big issues but I think there was already a push in the North (yes they also had slave owners) and even in some Southern states to make it illegal and I think it was only a matter of time before it was abolished by all. I don`t believe that just because they were trying to succeed from the union adn had different views makes them the horrible people some make them out to be.