No Rebel flags flying?

[worthywads]

:pokeeye:I call BS, Opinion piece only. Ya think "everyone" had slaves, and was basis for a civil war?

If you are talking about my posts, those quotes are from the Confederate Constitution and from the Texas declaration of succession, not opinion.

No one thinks everyone had slaves, but yeah legal slavery and white supremacy was the basis for the civil war.

Only in a confederate state would you learn in school that it wasn't about slavery.

I was born in San Diego in 1969 and I have never lived any place other than Southern California. I'm here to tell you when I attended schools, they taught that the war was about state rights. That the southern states objected to being told what to do by others. They taught that the slavery issue was merely one small component of the issue back then. I liked history when I was a kid and I listened to my teachers. I didn't misunderstand what I read or heard.

Since then, the issue has been a growing hotbed of discussion and there is great division. To kindle that kind of hatred and keep it glowing, you have to recite history in a way that inflames people. When I look at my daughters schoolbooks, the story is portrayed differently. It's not that I see it differently. I've always believed in equality. But the printed story is different.

So why would the story have changed. Because we live in the age of victimization and the original story frankly isn't as spicy.

Well I can't argue what you remember being taught, but I'd love to see the text of the books you would have learned that slavery was a small component .

I recall my Catholic Wisconsin textbooks discussing slavery as the primary cause, nope can't produce those text either.

However instead of trusting in the many interpretations I have been focusing on the original reasons for secession from the different Confederate states and over and over it keeps reading like slavery is the primary reason.

I already quoted Texas.

Here is South Carolina.

"We, the People of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the Ordinance adopted by us in Convention, on the twenty-third day of May in the year of our Lord One Thousand Seven hundred and eighty eight, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America was ratified, and also all Acts and parts of Acts of the General Assembly of this State, ratifying amendment of the said Constitution, are here by repealed; and that the union now subsisting between South Carolina and other States, under the name of "The United States of America," is hereby dissolved.

The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution.

A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery."

As I stated before, the main gist is South Carolina is pissed that the Fugitive Slave Act was not being enforced for Federal help in returning escaped slaves back from free states to slave states.  And their problem is with President Lincoln and his hostility to slavery.

Georgia

Same theme, the north is anti-slavery and aren't returning our slaves.  This is the lead paragraph.  I can't travel into free states with my slaves without possibly losing my property.

"The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic."

Mississippi makes it very clear it is all about slavery.

"In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

I could go on but it is easy to read directly each of 5 confederate states Declaration of Immediate Clause.

None describe slavery as but a small component, instead it was the driving states right issue.  That and refusal of free states and the federal government enforcing the Fugitive Slave Act, which was seen as a direct attack and criminal taking of their property.  Over and over the loss of the value of their property comes up. 

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

You can speculate about age of victimization and spicy, but I'll stick with the words of the Confederates on why they seceded.  I have to wonder why no free states decided their states rights were in jeopardy if it was a broad states rights issue that all states would have. The states right of slavery was the primary states right issue. States have their own right to not return slaves, if states rights are important, but the Federal government wasn't making them return slaves, so they didn't have an issue.

[dodj]

:pokeeye:I call BS, Opinion piece only. Ya think "everyone" had slaves, and was basis for a civil war?

I find it interesting that worthy is posting up verifiable info and others are posting up opinions....

[1 Wild R/T]

:pokeeye:I call BS, Opinion piece only. Ya think "everyone" had slaves, and was basis for a civil war?

I find it interesting that worthy is posting up verifiable info and others are posting up opinions....

I find it interesting that the "verifiable info" is cut & pasted from the internet....  Find a printed copy dated prior to 1960 & photocopy it please....

[anlauto]

Lets keep it civil now guys...

[worthywads]

:pokeeye:I call BS, Opinion piece only. Ya think "everyone" had slaves, and was basis for a civil war?

I find it interesting that worthy is posting up verifiable info and others are posting up opinions....

I find it interesting that the "verifiable info" is cut & pasted from the internet....  Find a printed copy dated prior to 1960 & photocopy it please....

So this isn't reliable?  Have you even looked at the source?

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/declaration-causes-seceding-states

[70 Challenger Lover]

Exactly. We read stuff off the internet and it becomes fact. Just like when cnn provides information, it becomes indisputable.

Even if it is all true, what difference would it make anyhow? It all happened a century before we were even born. I won't tell others what to do but I won't lie down and beg forgiveness for something I had no part of. I am tolerant of a lot of things And viewpoints I don't necessarily care for so I don't think I'm expecting too much that the world tolerate me in return. And if not, I won't lose a minutes sleep over it.

The thread was about the banning of a flag that some find offensive. People need to stop looking for ways to be insulted. Those who try to pacify the insulted groups will find that road has no end.

[worthywads]

https://news.yahoo.com/noose-found-black-driver-bubba-071423518.html

Lynching isn't a federal crime, prevented by states rights advocates.

[Skid Row]

  :Stirring:Yep, Spotted on camera by two MAGA supporters. Jessie Smollet 2.0

[torredcuda]

Exactly. We read stuff off the internet and it becomes fact. Just like when cnn provides information, it becomes indisputable.

Even if it is all true, what difference would it make anyhow? It all happened a century before we were even born. I won't tell others what to do but I won't lie down and beg forgiveness for something I had no part of. I am tolerant of a lot of things And viewpoints I don't necessarily care for so I don't think I'm expecting too much that the world tolerate me in return. And if not, I won't lose a minutes sleep over it.

The thread was about the banning of a flag that some find offensive. People need to stop looking for ways to be insulted. Those who try to pacify the insulted groups will find that road has no end.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

https://news.yahoo.com/noose-found-black-driver-bubba-071423518.html

Lynching isn't a federal crime, prevented by states rights advocates.

Not sure we need to see any more examples of why that flag needs to be put away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CudaMoparRay]

NASCAR greats "King" Richard Petty agrees as does Dale Earnhardt Jr and many others
This is a gigantic cultural change

[Skid Row]

  Last post on this I Promise, If that flag offends you in any way I suggest take some advice.
Soak some rags in kerosene, and tie them around your ankles so the ants won't eat your candy a$$ up.

[Cudajason]

https://news.yahoo.com/noose-found-black-driver-bubba-071423518.html

Lynching isn't a federal crime, prevented by states rights advocates.

I am not sure how to take that comment???? 

[dodj]

:pokeeye:I call BS, Opinion piece only. Ya think "everyone" had slaves, and was basis for a civil war?

I find it interesting that worthy is posting up verifiable info and others are posting up opinions....

I find it interesting that the "verifiable info" is cut & pasted from the internet....  Find a printed copy dated prior to 1960 & photocopy it please....

By verifiable, I mean it has a source that you can go see, and you can judge it's authenticity for yourself.

Maybe a bit of a sidetrack, but why did you pick the year 1960? Was there a big information/education change in your country that year?

[cuda dad]

Just sharing some reading from a time before history was re-written or simply erased.  Personally, I am not offended by The Rebel Flag.  To me, it symbolizes Lynyrd Skynyrd and they are one of my favorite bands.  Lots of things evolved from different things.  For example, had it not been for Moonshine, there would be no NASCAR.