1974 Challenger Restomod

[JS29]

Dose the quarter panel contour follow along with the striker panel contour? did you grind the striker panel, or is the paint line still visible. If the door is in question, look at the skin ware it wraps around the door frame and see if that looks natural or stretched.   

[Dmod1974]

Thanks for the advice everyone!  I'll check it out and report back.  I'm fairly confident the RH side hasn't been hacked before, so I'm thinking that I should be able to measure from the quarter inner structure to the skin outside and compare it to the LH side in addition to the other checks to determine what is at fault.  The doors are not original for sure either since the insides are still painted different colors, but the RH side doesn't appear to be covered in bondo.  The driver side is so bad that you cannot even see the lower body line across most of it, so who knows what happened to that piece earlier in life.  I'm honestly surprised I haven't found any patches made with beer cans and stop signs yet.

[YellowThumper]

If only the one side was hammered I suggest making a cardboard cutout that follows contour of passenger side door and or quarter. See how it matches up to drivers side. That should give you the answer.
To me the door has appearance of not having correct contour.
Pics are all original build and paint.

[jimynick]

Man, you've got a few issues going on here. Who's 1/4 is that? To my eye, the 1/4- as photographed- looks low in relation to the door, but you can only go up about an 1/8" or so before you lose the door to 1/4 bodyline match. The 1/4 looks like it's concave at the upper door to 1/4 and you may have to nibble some narrow pie cuts into the inner flange to allow the panel to bow out sufficiently to match the door contour. Try loosening the vicegrip on the rocker flange and stick a good sized screwdriver between the lower edge of the door to 1/4 and see if you can walk it back to get a gap. The 1/4 looks to want to go in tighter to the upper trunk panel and the flanges on that and the 1/4 are vertical and are meant to be welded to each other. You may be able to get some 'grips on those flanges and pinch them together better and that'll close your left 1/4 to deck lid gap. The deck to 1/4 gaps don't look too bad and you have to remember that these cars were fitted like crap from the factory, so if you're using an inexpensive AM 1/4 panel and expecting modern day fits, you're in for some slicing and dicing laddie. And that doesn't take into account the prior damage that you've referred to. Pull the 1/4 down tight to the wheelhouse and see where that takes you in regards to the trunk extension. The 1/4 flange is way too skinny at the rear bottom as it should cover the whlhse flange- and it doesn't. No biggie there as you can weld it in and bronze is just the ticket to fill and grind nicely. I wouldn't've welded in the whlhse before fitting the 1/4, but it's a wee bit late in the day to go there, eh? Keep wiggling, prying, cutting and torquing and see where you get. Good luck. 

[Dmod1974]

Yeah, I'm not too thrilled with this piece at all.  It's an AMD full quarter.  I messed with it all day today and was able to get the decklid filler and decklid gaps tighter.  Ended up grinding down the tail panel a bit and cutting a slice into the 1/4 flange to get it sucked in and flush fitting.  The 1/4 is butted up tight to the bottom and side of the rocker now, and the wheelhouse flange is perfect except for that overhang where the trunk extension sticks out past the lip.  It's bottomed out against the 1/4 so I can't pull it in anymore.  I can trim that down though.









I'm still at a loss on what to so with the front of this panel.  I unscrewed the door jamb to 1/4 flange and the door and 1/4 are almost flush now, but the 1/4 is waaaay too far out when compared to the passenger side at the door jamb pillar end.  I measured the gap at the door jamb pillar to 1/4 flange, and also the gap between the inner and outer 1/4 window flanges on both sides. 

















You can see how it fits closely at the bottom, and quickly gets too wide from the door jamb toward the top - unscrewed.





The door doesn't appear to be reskinned, but I'm thinking it has to be the issue now since the side to side 1/4 to jamb pillar and window track measurements are so far off.  When the piece was screwed in, the two sides measurements are pretty even.  The door to quarter gap is still a mess too, and the quarter sits a little higher than the door even though the body lines are aligned pretty close.  Some of that is the bend line isn't as sharp of an angle as it should be though.



Initially, I thought the rear end sagged somehow when working on it and that's why the door gap is so badly tapered, but I saved a piece of the old sail panel and it lines up perfectly with the new piece that is fitted and the existing body, so I don't think that is the issue.  Ignore my pathetic attempt at epoxy priming the roof - it's just for temporary protection and I have ZERO intentions of painting it myself.  That's where I throw in the towel!



I also can't get the 1/4 to trunk extension holes to line up.  They're closer now, but I cannot get them lined up without getting really ignorant with the panels.  LOL.  Fun times.

[nsmall]

Sorry, not a body guy, cant help you at this point.    These cars can really drive a person mad.  Take your time and if you have to hire someone to help or give advice it might be worth your sanity.   

[Mr Lee]

Dude, you're my hero.  Despite the problems you're having w alignment, kudos for even taking on all that work and hell of a job man!  That car is gonna be solid when youre done. 
Sorry, I'm not an experienced body guy either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[YellowThumper]

I think at this point you should take some measurements off the frame to ensure it is not twisted.
Also you can take several cross measurements from inside cabin up front at a pillars. Front of doors rear of doors and then back at the striker jam area. Something like roof across and down to base. Also from lower jamb areas up to the window channel levels. This can give you a lot of comparison numbers from left to right. It is even possible your drivers door is twisted. Measure across low to high and high to low.
Good luck.
Mike.

[soundcontrol]

Great work!! And excellent pictures, just read the whole thread. Doing quarters myself right now (I am a newbie at body work also) and I realise I have to put the fenders and hood on to really check the gaps before I weld anything. I have a question about the panel bound and plug welding combo you did with the firewall, I like the idea of having it completely sealed between the welds. When you combine them, how does the welds affect the glue? Do you apply weld primer just at the plug weld spots? Or maybe I misunderstood and you are welding some areas and glueing others?

[Dmod1974]

I think at this point you should take some measurements off the frame to ensure it is not twisted.
Also you can take several cross measurements from inside cabin up front at a pillars. Front of doors rear of doors and then back at the striker jam area. Something like roof across and down to base. Also from lower jamb areas up to the window channel levels. This can give you a lot of comparison numbers from left to right. It is even possible your drivers door is twisted. Measure across low to high and high to low.
Good luck.
Mike.

Good call...  I know that my measurements are good on the frame sheet, but those are just a handful of the structural areas.  It's entirely possible that the other parts of the body are not square.  I'll definitely do that!

[Dmod1974]

Great work!! And excellent pictures, just read the whole thread. Doing quarters myself right now (I am a newbie at body work also) and I realise I have to put the fenders and hood on to really check the gaps before I weld anything. I have a question about the panel bound and plug welding combo you did with the firewall, I like the idea of having it completely sealed between the welds. When you combine them, how does the welds affect the glue? Do you apply weld primer just at the plug weld spots? Or maybe I misunderstood and you are welding some areas and glueing others?

Yeah, I'd mock up darn near EVERYTHING before installing them.  Valance, trim, door, hood, fender, etc.

Regarding the panel bond, you can SPOT weld through it, but you absolutely cannot MIG weld through it.  It can't take the heat and will make for a horrible quality weld along with burning up around it.  The product instructions will tell you that any MIG welding needs to be at least a few inches away from the panel bond.

I wouldn't waste time spot welding through it though either...  I did on the cowl sides because it was the only area I could get my cheapo clunky spot welder full access to, but without a professional spot welder that hydraulically clamps and adjusts current to ensure a consistent weld, you're probably getting very inconsistent welds with some of them hardly bonding and others overpenetrating.

The panel bond by itself is far stronger than spot welding as it is given the surface area of a whole flange instead of a few touch points.

For a panel where I do both plug welding and glue, I apply weld primer only to the areas to be welded ensuring that the glued areas will be far enough from the heat.  You'll need to strip the areas to be glued down to bare metal.  After that, all you do is apply a bead to each side, smear it to cover all bare metal, and clamp away!  Unbelievably easy and time saving to use - in the right places.

If you need to use screws to hold parts together during gluing you can remove them after it cures still and fill the holes with more epoxy.  Don't try to weld them closed or you'll destroy the bond.

[soundcontrol]

Yeah, I'd mock up darn near EVERYTHING before installing them.  Valance, trim, door, hood, fender, etc.

Regarding the panel bond, you can SPOT weld through it, but you absolutely cannot MIG weld through it.  It can't take the heat and will make for a horrible quality weld along with burning up around it.  The product instructions will tell you that any MIG welding needs to be at least a few inches away from the panel bond.

I wouldn't waste time spot welding through it though either...  I did on the cowl sides because it was the only area I could get my cheapo clunky spot welder full access to, but without a professional spot welder that hydraulically clamps and adjusts current to ensure a consistent weld, you're probably getting very inconsistent welds with some of them hardly bonding and others overpenetrating.

The panel bond by itself is far stronger than spot welding as it is given the surface area of a whole flange instead of a few touch points.

For a panel where I do both plug welding and glue, I apply weld primer only to the areas to be welded ensuring that the glued areas will be far enough from the heat.  You'll need to strip the areas to be glued down to bare metal.  After that, all you do is apply a bead to each side, smear it to cover all bare metal, and clamp away!  Unbelievably easy and time saving to use - in the right places.

If you need to use screws to hold parts together during gluing you can remove them after it cures still and fill the holes with more epoxy.  Don't try to weld them closed or you'll destroy the bond.

Thanks Dmod, thats what I suspected, I will get some panelbond anyways for my next project, working on my 70 conv. now, but the next one (a -73) will need a firewall/cowl. The lower cowl to firewall flange seems lika a good place for glue, lots of water gets in there.

[Dmod1974]

Update: I really couldn't find anything glaringly wrong with the body measurements, but I do think I have the issue mostly narrowed down.  The replacement door jamb pillar needs rework.  After hammering on the flange in opposing directions at the top and bottom I was able to get the lower door to 1/4 gap wider and the upper tighter.  I think the flange needs to come outward at the top as well and the two panels will be flush.





It's not where it needs to be yet, but it's definitely a lot better than before.     Before the lower was so tight that the door was actually rubbing with everything clamped in place.

[YellowThumper]

As you have already proven you know.
Step by step by step by step.
Eventually you will get it there.
With gaps close and surfaces aligned, you then have the option to add and subtract from the actual door edge for tje level of perfection you ultimately want.

Mike.

[jimynick]

Is the 1/4 lip at the door/1/4 lower 90' from the face of the 1/4? Sometimes they can get bent in and then they'll contact the lock pillar prematurely while eating up the clearance you need for the proper door-1/4 gap. If it is, then you'll have to take a block of wood and set the lock pillar back the needed amount. If you have access to one, a bodyman's jack would make a good push to the lower corner pushing the 1/4 back to get a decent gap. If you can't get any more movement at that upper area, you could make a couple of narrow (1/8") pie cuts in the flange to allow the panel to curve to where you want it. They're easily welded up afterwards. Looks like you're getting there!