How do I tell for sure if I dropped a lifter

[usraptor]

Thanks everybody.  My wife's having surgery tomorrow so it will be a couple of days until I get back to it.  I'll let you know what I find out.

[1 Wild R/T]

After that, it's change the cam and flush the engine time.

Uh, no... The metal will already be imbedded in bearings & pistons.... On old 100,000 mile motors everything is loose & it causes some damage but since there's extra clearance it usually still keeps running.... On a tight fresh engine the metal scores bearings & embeds in the bearings & pistons then scores the crankshaft & cylinder walls... The lifted metal on the bearing/piston vs the lifted metal on the crank/cylinder wall leads to galling & eventually seizing....

Sorry, BTDT flushing & hoping for the best rarely works.....

As far as why the valve still moves, the lobe isn't gone, just doesn't have all of it's original profile....

[usraptor]

Thanks 1 Wild R/T

[rebelyell]

After that, it's change the cam and flush the engine time.

Uh, no... The metal will already be imbedded in bearings & pistons.... On old 100,000 mile motors everything is loose & it causes some damage but since there's extra clearance it usually still keeps running.... On a tight fresh engine the metal scores bearings & embeds in the bearings & pistons then scores the crankshaft & cylinder walls... The lifted metal on the bearing/piston vs the lifted metal on the crank/cylinder wall leads to galling & eventually seizing....

Sorry, BTDT flushing & hoping for the best rarely works.....

As far as why the valve still moves, the lobe isn't gone, just doesn't have all of it's original profile....

So what you're saying is if this happens, you have to replace everything in the shortblock but the block??   

[Shane Kelley]

After that, it's change the cam and flush the engine time.

Uh, no... The metal will already be imbedded in bearings & pistons.... On old 100,000 mile motors everything is loose & it causes some damage but since there's extra clearance it usually still keeps running.... On a tight fresh engine the metal scores bearings & embeds in the bearings & pistons then scores the crankshaft & cylinder walls... The lifted metal on the bearing/piston vs the lifted metal on the crank/cylinder wall leads to galling & eventually seizing....

Sorry, BTDT flushing & hoping for the best rarely works.....

As far as why the valve still moves, the lobe isn't gone, just doesn't have all of it's original profile....

So what you're saying is if this happens, you have to replace everything in the shortblock but the block??   

I have seen people get by with flushing the motor. But make no mistake. There is damage to the bearings. How much damage and how long the motor will last is anybody's guess. Just a roll of the dice at this point.

If it's torn down now it would possibly only need bearings and oil pump after a thorough cleaning and inspection. 

[1 Wild R/T]

After that, it's change the cam and flush the engine time.

Uh, no... The metal will already be imbedded in bearings & pistons.... On old 100,000 mile motors everything is loose & it causes some damage but since there's extra clearance it usually still keeps running.... On a tight fresh engine the metal scores bearings & embeds in the bearings & pistons then scores the crankshaft & cylinder walls... The lifted metal on the bearing/piston vs the lifted metal on the crank/cylinder wall leads to galling & eventually seizing....

Sorry, BTDT flushing & hoping for the best rarely works.....

As far as why the valve still moves, the lobe isn't gone, just doesn't have all of it's original profile....

So what you're saying is if this happens, you have to replace everything in the shortblock but the block??   

Sometimes... And I've seen where the block itself is fubar....  I hope he can save most of the engine but everything & I do mean everything has to come apart to be cleaned & inspected...   Rocker shafts, pull the end plugs cause that passage gets loaded.. valves out to check the guides, clean, thoroughly flush & inspect everything..

I've known of engines that got rebuilt four times cause something got missed... Don't chance it....  Sorry but losing a cam on a fresh engine is a nightmare... There's a reason rollers are worth the $$$ besides the extra power... 

[rebelyell]

I used to think I could handle a motor rebuild, but the more I read about it, I'd be the guy rebuilding it 4 times. ha. That's good info to know. I'm anxious to see what the oil looks like now.

[usraptor]

Okay, pulled the oil filter and cut it apart.  No metal shavings were in the filter element.  Filtered the oil that came out of the oil filter into a paint strainer and again no metal shavings.  I pulled the driver's side rocker arms and tried Chryco's suggestion of using a magnet to pull up the lifter, but couldn't see the cam well enough to determine if there was any damage.  Removed the intake and valley pan, rotated the crank/cam until the no 3 cam lobes were up and there was no gouging, or missing metal. I inspected the bottom of both lifters for No 3 and there was no gouging, or excessive wear to either lifter.  I did notice that there is definitely a wear pattern on the cam lobes wear the lifter have been riding on it.  I assume this is normal "polishing" but considering it's been years since I pulled down an engine I can't say if this is normal.  I included several pictures to try and show what I'm referring to.  It was difficult to get a decent picture with the lack of light and the camera flash reflecting on the cam but I think you can get the idea.  Pictures No 1 is the exhaust lobe for No. 3 exhaust.  Pic No. 2 is the bottom of the exhaust lifter for No. 3.  I tried to get a picture of the intake lifter for No. 3 but they were all out of focus.  Let's just say it's virtually identical to the No. 3 exhaust lifter.  Pics no. 3,4,&5 are the intake cam lobe for cylinder no 3.  Pict No 6 is the cam for cylinders no 5&6.  The rest of the pictures are just various angles trying to show the wear/polishing on various cam lobes.  So first question is the cam wear/polishing marks normal or is my cam on the way out and need to be replaced?  Secondly, if it's normal, then back to my original question as how do I determine if the lifters for cylinder No. 3 are bad? Third question, is it to late to add roller hydraulic lifters (knowing I'd need new push rods) or do they have to go with a cam that is specifically ground for roller lifters? Any other comments or suggestions are welcome. 

[1 Wild R/T]

You should buy a few Lotto tickets.... Oil clean alone is a  the cam looks decent, it still has a lobe.... Gotta say I'm really happy for you, I hate explaining the realities of a failed cam, but turning a blind eye never fixes the problem....  But you sir dodged that bullet.... replace a couple lifters & treat it like a new cam breaking so those lifters get mated to the cam...

[Chryco Psycho]

Looks fine to me did a lifter just collapse internally ?

[usraptor]

Looks fine to me did a lifter just collapse internally ?

Don't know Chryco.  How do I tell?  When I took the lifters out the cup was in the "UP" position????

[usraptor]

You should buy a few Lotto tickets.... Oil clean alone is a  the cam looks decent, it still has a lobe.... Gotta say I'm really happy for you, I hate explaining the realities of a failed cam, but turning a blind eye never fixes the problem....  But you sir dodged that bullet.... replace a couple lifters & treat it like a new cam breaking so those lifters get mated to the cam...

So I Wild RT I assume that scuffing/polishing on the cam lobes that show where the lifters have been riding is normal and not excessive for an engine with approx 1 hour run time?

[Chryco Psycho]

It will polish a shiny track in the black parkerized coating so that looks normal , you will not the track is thin onthe ramp to rotate the lifter but near the top goes to full contact .
If the lifter will not hold hyd pressure it could be adjusted down so the cup is low inthe lifter but without load it will normally return to the top position .
Luckily  the cam has not failed at least

[Roadman]

            Well, glad the cam is good, but if the lifters failed, why.  Must be a reason.  What brand are they. ?  I just feel like this needs to be looked into so it don't happen again.               

[usraptor]

            Well, glad the cam is good, but if the lifters failed, why.  Must be a reason.  What brand are they. ?  I just feel like this needs to be looked into so it don't happen again.               

Lunati lifters that came with the cam.