Anyone Abandon Their Project?

[70_440-6Cuda]

I am sure many have thought about it, but anyone ever abandoned a project as just to large of an undertaking?

Looking at whats in front of me to get my car done, the expense has just spiraled out of control - throw on another $20-$40k (that I dont have) for a paint job and I am WAAAAAY beyond upside down.  Just from a logical standpoint, considering initial purchase of $55K and what it will take to finish - I could cut my losses and buy a $150-$200K car and be in the same position.  Maybe.

I am seriously considering getting the sheet metal in place, selling it as is so it can be seen and inspected for quality of work, and sell off all of the very high dollar NOS and original parts I have collected over 2 years.

Ugh, just frustrating.  Buying a complete car isn't as fun, but I am having no fun now!  And there is no saying you dont end up with another basket case, but many of the resorted cars are known entities or have known history

Curious if any here have sold mid way complete projects and how it turned out?  My car is a '70 'Cuda 440-6 auto - non numbers matching, but in a billion pieces.  I would have to figure out how to sell it and what to include, and what is it really worth, or more importantly, what is someone willing to pay for a non number basket case with all solid sheet metal?  Cut my losses or am I in too deep?

Plus I am teetering on a divorce with this thing....I cant hide the slush fund anymore!

[pschlosser]

I sympathize with what you're saying.  This may be a good time to ask yourself what your motivation is.  What to you hope to gain from all the money, blood, sweat and tears of the project? 

Few of us are ever in a position to actually make money, or turn a profit from projects like these, so there often has to be another driver to see it through.

Some common motivations seem to be (not in ay particular order):

1. profit (good luck)
2. prestige
3. obduracy
4. entertainment
5. women performing unspeakable acts on the front seat of their restored vehicle

for me, it's mostly entertainment.  and will I actually drive my fully restored vehicle?  if it's a numbers-matching and/or rare car?  not likely or not often.

if I want to actually drive the thing, and have some fun, perhaps be a tiny bit reckless, from time to time, I'd rather drive a fake one, a tribute car, or a beat-up driver.

as for selling your project, there is often one inescapable truth at play, the prettier it looks, the more you can get for it. 

if you're gonna pay to fix the sheet metal, you may want to see it through to some improved state of prettiness.  even if you get an "Earl Scheib" paintjob, it may pay for itself and then some, compared to a bare sheet metal car, unless, the bare sheet metal car looks really good, as-is.

The rust-repair and paint part of the project is often the most painful, and most costly stages of the project, and can take the longest time.

For me, the most joyful parts of the project is the final assembly.  Even if I don't have all the parts, yet, if the paint is pretty, the car is still a joy to have in the garage, to look at, to admire, to work on, to shop for, and maybe to drive (if it runs).

I may even pay more for parts, after it's painted, than I do before.  It just feels better seeing the thing come together.

It will be an easier sell, to sell the car after it's painted, filled with boxes of parts, then before.

[Mopar5]

I have not abandoned a project but I feel what you are saying about constantly putting out money if you dwell on that too much its easy for that to become a mindset. My car is 90% done all paint body done, engine rebuilt,  suspension rebuilt, differential rebulit, firm feel power steering box rebuilt.AC Box rebuilt.I just can't seem to focus on it right now . And it is really bugging me. Ive thought about selling it but I think I would feel defeated if I did.So I've had like a 3 year period where everything is just sitting. I also think if you sell it non assembled even if the parts are in great shape you will take a disproportionate loss because someone can't just turn the key and drive it.

[RUNCHARGER]

I never quit. However I have made great deals buying a few unfinished cars. I am not the type of guy who likes to profit from someone elses misfortune but someone else will if I dont I figure. You have to finish your metal work, no choice. Then take a breather before giving someone else a chance at it or not. Financially my advise would be to finish it and sell, otherwise you'll lose money but you could list it as a package for what you have invested, you may be okay. Good projects arent easy to find these days either. Tell your wife if you had bought a new Hellcat instead, you would have lost $20k driving it home from the dealership.

[Cuda_mark]

If you have most of the work done pre-paint, I would assemble it and get it to a running driving state. That might motivate you to finish it up, you can enjoy it a little bit and even consider selling it at that point. If you decide to keep it you can stretch it out over a longer time while you both enjoy and restore.

[pschlosser]

If you have most of the work done pre-paint, I would assemble it and get it to a running driving state.

I concur.  We get more for cars one can test drive.  Even if it runs badly, poorly aligned, in need of suspension work, tires and brakes, if it can be started, driven on to the trailer, and/or driven around the block, the buyer's imagination and excitement gets a real kick in the pants.

[mtull]

$55K and what it will take to finish

I may be stating the obvious questions ... just thinking out loud (no need to divulge details).
Questions:
- How deep are you into the project now?
- How much more is required to complete the car?
- How much could you sell the project for?
- How much could you sell the completed car for?

Lets say you have 80K into the car now and you need another 50K to complete the car to a high level.  Is that realistic?  You'll have $130K into a TX9 V-Code Cuda.  It's hard to say where car prices will be in a few years but for discussions sake lets say worse case you sell the completed car for $95K and best case you sell it for $130K or more.  Conversely, selling the car soon as a partially assembled project with completed metal work may bring $50K or more? My apologies if my numbers are way off. As others as stated, running and yard driving go along way to potential buyers.

For comparison (kind of), four years ago I considered buying a partially assembled Cuda project, white, V-Code, N96, D32.  The 727 was # match but not the engine.  I believe it came with an original shaker hood but missing bubble.  I believe the trunk pan and quarters had been replaced.  The seller was asking 55K and was for sale for at least a year before I lost track of it.  Your car being TX9 may demand more.

With all that said,  once you get past this rough patch, it will get fun again.  IF you loose money, just remember it's way more satisfying loosing money restoring a car compared to golf and going to strip clubs.

[tparker]

I was somewhat lucky. I bought mine for $900 back in 1989 or 1990, so I have minimal initial investment. I parked it for a few years while in the army and some A-Hole kids shoot out my windows. The rain ruined the interior and the shitty "vinyl" top soaked up water and rotted the hood, rear window, deck lid, and trunk.

It took me YEARS to get any extra money. I got lucky a few years and got a $1000 here and a few hundred bucks there, so I was able to buy stuff and store it. I worked some overtime and bought the roof with part of it. I bought some of the interior with other money. I made a few mistakes along the way such as buying used seat covers only to find out I was missing one bottom seat cover. Hard too find just that, so I ended up buying a whole new set. Anyways, It's been about 35 years since initially parked it. I am hoping to get it back on the road this spring. It's been a long time with lots of financial issues, but I am close. I don't think I ever seriously considered selling it.

I did pretty much everything myself over weekends on and off for about a decade. I did the body work, interior (headliner, upholstry, etc), paint, glass, etc all myself. The machine shop did the motor. They charged very little to put the short block together so I just had them do that. I did have the dash redone by "just dash" or whatever there name is, otherwise it was just me and a lot of time. So I ended up saving a lot of cash. My paint probably cost less than $2K, but I didn't keep track. All in I would guess I am only $5-10k invested. I couldn't imagine buying a car for 20K then have too paint it for near the same cost and then do whatever restoration which would include someone elses time. I could NEVER afford that, nor justify it. The trade off is my car has some issues, but then, so do I after 55 years LOL. I am not one that wants a perfect car. It IS 50 years old and should look it in my opinion. I am not concerned matching numbers tires, belts, filters, oil, and air. LOL. Heck, I love my center caps that are from a different year, and if I could, I would put on the same aftermarket antennae that came with the car and funky suede(?) "vinyl" top. So that all helped. And boy am I glad I DIDN'T get a hemi after all. That would have killed me. LOL

Anyways, I would hate to see you abandon the project but it is a money game. If you think about it as an investment, you probably will get upside down. But if it is a hobby and a car, then it kinda makes sense. A car will cost you some where between $30-$80k new and will depreciate. If you but a car for $20K, put another 20K for paint and another 20K for restoration, you are only in $60K, the cost of a decent new car today. Although you 'probably' won't get all that back, but you won't loose depreciation, but rather the price will rise and you will move towards breaking even rather than away. But these are hobbies and not investments in my mind.

Anyways, sorry for long post. Hope it all works out.

[7E-Bodies]

"Abandon" is a tad harsh on my story. I had attended 2017 Carlisle after buying a basket case 73 Barracuda pile, knowing I could do all of the body work and even shoot the FE5 color and lay out it's original black stripes. The numbers matching 318 had been boiled and checked good and was waiting to be stroked by Hughes since I live near there. After replacing all side panels (no patching), decklid, trunk pan, tail light panel and rear wheel housings, it was very presentable although in black "AMD shade". It was at this stage that I stumbled across my current car. A 70 Challenger RT U code with all numbers matching front to back and two build sheets. A project that has spent nearly 4 decades in dry storage with very little rust. As soon as I trailered that home and put it in my shop next to the Barracuda, I caught myself working on one, then the other, then repeat. I knew I'd never get them both done so one had to go. No brainer being the one that'd be worth far less in finished condition. The barracuda went quick and I doubled my money as far as receipts go. Time? I lost my arse on that, but that seems typical. Instead of "Abandon", I'd say I reluctantly let it go to get onto a far better project.
As for my current project? JS23U0B cars with practically zero rot and a spotless underbelly with all numbers matching don't just fall out of the sky. Since I do almost everything other than rebuild engines or transmissions, I've kept fairly above water, soaking somewhere nearing 50 kilos and that's with the entire drivetrain done professionally, 440 dyno'd and ready, shell mostly stripped and in PPG DP40 epoxy (Fenders and hood are next). I do my own body work as I had worked in a body shop years ago and learned from some of the best names in my area. If someone were to walk into my shop (man cave) and start bending my arm, they'd better start at the 50 kilos in receipts and be smart enough to realize the value in a rock solid and arrow straight rust-free shell. Not to mention the value in the parts that were sent off to be professionally restored like the original radiator, 2229171 master cylinder and booster, original carb that went to Scott Smith at Harms, professionally restored rim blow wheel, original factory rims blasted and powder coated to perfection, original heater box (non AC) restored to like new, exquisitely restored and super rare V5F body side moldings, restored dashpad from ABC Moparts, NOS looking brake parts x4, and on and on and on...and so my drift is that if you sell it, start at what you have in it. Your time only counts more the closer it is to being finished or at least at the fun part of assembly as mentioned prior. Another thing that figures in is how the car is optioned.

[JH27N0B]

My T/A project ended up being a restoration nightmare and costed me far more than I initially estimated.  It went to a recommended shop in another state and all seemed great, until it ended up sitting there only getting worked on from time to time over 14 years.  In the meantime my work situation got sketchy and I got laid off and was unemployed three times during that time period!
Whenever I'd start thinking it was time to find a new shop and move it there, I'd get laid off again!
So the car was out of sight out of mind, in free storage in a way, for years.
I probably would have been interested in selling out, but since I'd had the car since high school there's lots of sentimental value.
A death in the family and me turning 50 made me realize I needed to get the project back in gear and finished whether I could afford it or not.  I moved it to a shop closer, where things didn't go well trying to work and deal with the owner, and bills got a little out of hand.  But in the end, the body and paint got done and assembled to a rolling chassis where it could finally come back home after 16 years!
Reassembling was fun, as over those years I'd been able to gather most parts and get all the odds and ends ready like chroming bumpers, reupholstering seats and 1000 other things so it was just a matter of putting everything back on or in the car!
My dad, who sadly passed just when the car was moved to the new shop, used to say the pleasure remains when the cost is forgotten!

[70_440-6Cuda]

Wow!  I didnt expect such a large response, AND appreciate it so much.  Some of the pictures are motivating.  To be a bit more clear, it is not necessarily a money game or a financial question, although that IS part of it, it is definitely not the only motivator.

I think I am frustrated to the point of not enjoying the project - I LOVE working on cars and motorcycles - my son and I (well mostly him) just did a top end rebuild and total cosmetic freshen up on a 2003 Yamaha PW50 - it was a total blast watching him work on it and fire it up on the 3rd kick!!

My goal was to buy a '70- or '71 ebody, preferably a 'Cuda, that needed cosmetic restoration without major metal work, which is why I bought a complete running car that looked to be decent.  We are finding that the vinyl roof was the killer of this car, and to top it off, the previous "body work" (I use the term VERY lightly) was beyond poorly done.

I was never intending to make money, and always knew I would be upside down to a degree - just not to THIS degree.  It is a little defeating, and I was hoping that having as much Mopar metal as possible would add to the long term value, although I am not sure why I care??  I had sourced all original sheet metal except the trunk pan and the rear valence, but it makes no difference now.

I was just contemplating if I am in fact not going to finish the car, now is the time.  I would leave it in bare metal so the quality of the work could be inspected.  I would put the restored, factory correct Dana 60 and original Mopar Hemi leaf springs in it, put the front suspension together with the restored original lower control arms, new upper control arms, correct spindles and NOS 2 piece disc brakes, include the original rear bench, front buckets, lower and overhead consoles, new carpet and new black vinyl upholstery kits and seat foams and let it go. 

I dont know, just sort of talking out loud - it is just SOOOO expensive and relentless outlay of cash right now, I could taker the money I get from selling everything, put it into a $150-180K V code and be in the same boat with a car I could drive now.  And I am not the type that would park it, even at that price - they can always be repaired if something happens - clearly considering what I am doing now but at least that would be on the insurance company's dime

I dont mind sharing - I paid $55k for the car, which at the time seemed fair for a car that was on the road and had 10' view paint.  I don't even know where I will be with the metal fab - Probably $20k in labor - he is only charging me $100 an hour since we have been friends for 30 years.  All the panels are roughly another $5k.  The amount I have spent on parts is a bit staggering, but I could easily recover those costs plus at this point IF I sold it all off, but I would guess another $40-50k - I bought a LOT of original restored or NOS parts, and about $12K of that is the rebuilt engine.  I also have 3 sets of original 6 pack carburetors, all rebuilt, and like 3 original grills so some extra stuff.  I have some NOS gauges, a new dash pad, NOS marker lights, restored headers, original tail panel trim, restored steering wheel, restored hood hinges, original restored fog lamps, an AMD shaker hood and an original rallye hood, 3 sets of turn signals and on and on

I should have nearly everything that would be hard to source or expensive to buy at this point.  But burn out is real for sure

[mtull]

I LOVE working on cars and motorcycles - my son

Some day after your gone, your son will look back at your time spent working together and cherish those memories.  The harder the work, the more cherished the memories. 

he is only charging me $100 an hour since we have been friends for 30 years

... there's your problem, you need cheaper friends  ... joking.

[B5fourspeed]

I would advertise it for sale as is.You might find someone who has the skills to do the metal work and paint who would take on a project like yours.Test the waters for offers and 1 of them might work for you.Between metal and paint plus other miscellaneous parts In think you are looking at another 50 to 70k









[/quote]

[ebodyproducts]

How much are you wanting for the car?

[pschlosser]

hoping that having as much Mopar metal as possible would add to the long term value, although I am not sure why I care??

Unless you do the work, yourself, paying another to do metal, bodywork and paint is a big money pit.  The labor costs in working and shaping OEM metal to fit and the bodywork to hide, costs more labor than replacing it with AMD (one example) metal.

If you ARE going to sell, the more you include in the sale package, the less you'll get for each of the items.  

In other words, the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.  I sell parts on ebay and swap meets, the prices are fair, but not bargain prices.  It takes years to sell a bunch of parts, so while many say they "want this or that" few are willing to pay fair prices for things until they actually need the part and/or the part is holding up a project.

If you have redundant parts, and you are planning to sell, get busy selling the redundant parts, because it will take time to liquidate them all... unless, you're in a hurry.  If you're in a hurry, underselling parts goes real fast, like selling something at 75% what their value seems to be.  At 50%, you may have the majority of parts sold within a couple months (presuming you got 30-50 items to sell)

Among your redundant parts, if you have NOS items, sell those separately, as you'll get the most return selling them that way.  Choose the best (non-NOS) parts to be included in your sale package for the car.  Work out the parts and try not to include anything in the sale package that isn't needed.

Also, if your 440 engine isn't ready to install, it's worth finding ANY other engine to install into the chassis, if it makes the car running and able to be test driven.  If your 440-6 engine IS ready to install, go for it, but do NOT allow others to test drive the car, but instead, take them for a test ride with you driving.

Lastly, the 426 Hemi is prestigious and the associated parts are pretty darn expansive.  The 440-6 is the next best thing.  I've been blessed to drive some pretty nicely-performing cars, over the years, including quarter mile runs and bracket racing.  On occasion, though, I've gotten a little nervous and maybe even scared driving powerful cars in situations (read highway and street) that were unsafe, or the power felt too great for the type of car, and or the state of its suspension and handling.  In nearly all of the cases that wasn't a 426 hemi car, it was a 440-6 one.  So don't let others drive your 440-6 engine.