'70 Vert - waited long enough...

[Cuda416]

Well again I appreciate the vote of confidence.

Years ago when I bought this thing, it didn't take long to start second guessing myself and thinking I made a mistake. After seeing what others have done (admittedly with way more experience than I), I decided the mistake would be not trying. I had to step back and take a long hard look at come to the realization it's just metal. A big metal puzzle and if I'm careful, watchful and work purposefully on each part, then eventually, I'll be successful.

Case in point. It took a year to get the jig done. hard truths are I have a full time jog, property to take care of, a honey-do list and family obligations I can't ignore. If it were just me, I'd just put a cot in the shop.

The biggest example that motivated me early on was Shelbydog at CC.com. He had a 71 challenger vert he cloned into a pace car. it was probably as rotted as mine, maybe not quite as bad but bad. He had it on jack stands and did some impressive work. Car turned out very nice.

It wasn't long after that I saw the jigs used by the AMD folks and I decided I was going to stack the deck in my favor, which is how I look at the jig, part of a stacked deck.

Anyway, it's comments like yours that help the most, people with more experience wanting us rank amateurs' to succeed and giving encouragement.

Thanks

-=C

[daaboots]

Excellent work on the frame jig!

[RacerX]

Well, aside from needing to paint a couple of small parts (cold got in the way), here is the jig in all it's glory. I was a little concerned with the overall rigidity but after having a floor jack under one corner and seeing the whole thing lift without any twisting, I'm not concerned. The bolts weren't even tight.

The one thing I need to do is to add the "toggles" to the mounting posts, but that will be a fairly easy thing to do.

Well damn.... now I really need to paint mine...   it looks soooo unfinished compared to that!     

[Cuda416]

Alright, the time has come so I'm putting this here to help keep me honest. I have no more excuses to not get the cuda on the jig. By Saturday evening I plan on having it mounted and put into place so I can start working on on it...

Now, a thought I had as I was stripping the dash etc out the other day. Since I'm NOT worried about making it "stock", I am considering cloning a 71. I'm going to have to get the entire grill area anyway, and my fenders are "OK" but not perfect. I'm thinking making the changes required to achieve the "look" won't be that much more considering I have a 70 header panel to sell/trade and fenders to so the same. Regardless of how I get the parts I think I'd need....

Grill and mounting hardware
Fenders/gills
Headlight assemblies
Wiring harnesses
Misc trim
Tail Light lenses/trim/Buckets
Front valance etc

Remember, I'm not going for the full monty, just the "look" , and there will be small things I've not lister, but overall, is there anything I'm forgetting?

[Cuda416]

Well it was a good weekend. Buckled down and got the rear end, leaf springs, valance, bumper, k-frame etc off the car and lowered it onto the jig! 

[RacerX]

Well it was a good weekend. Buckled down and got the rear end, leaf springs, valance, bumper, k-frame etc off the car and lowered it onto the jig!

Nice!    Progress like that always raises the spirits and helps build momentum!

Now the fun begins...   doing measurements and seeing how far off from spec it is from the factory and how 50 years of abuse have tweaked it even further...   


I'm glad I had mine blasted before working on it.   Seems like a waste when removing so much of the metal afterward but it makes it so much easier to see the spot welds and there is not a constant rain of rust and dirt.

That will look sharp as a '71...   if you need the parts anyway the expense isn't that much different for 70 vs 71.   None of the mods are irreversible so if you ever need to put it back to '70 it isn't too difficult.     

[Cuda416]

Well it was a good weekend. Buckled down and got the rear end, leaf springs, valance, bumper, k-frame etc off the car and lowered it onto the jig!

Nice!    Progress like that always raises the spirits and helps build momentum!

Now the fun begins...   doing measurements and seeing how far off from spec it is from the factory and how 50 years of abuse have tweaked it even further...   

I'm glad I had mine blasted before working on it.   Seems like a waste when removing so much of the metal afterward but it makes it so much easier to see the spot welds and there is not a constant rain of rust and dirt.

That will look sharp as a '71...   if you need the parts anyway the expense isn't that much different for 70 vs 71.   None of the mods are irreversible so if you ever need to put it back to '70 it isn't too difficult.   

Thanks!  And youre not wrong, it's going to be a lot of fun.

Once I get the jig mount points set and locked in place, I might being a small dolly and after bracing everything, rolling it up onto my trailer and getting it blasted as well.

I'd be interested in opinions regarding dry or wet (dustless) regarding something like this. Not too worried about rust.... for obvious reasons, but in either case, the benefit of having a "clean slate" is very attractive. Whatever I choose, I'll treat the bade metal and seal it with epoxy asap.

[Cuda416]

Alright folks, time to get serious.

I am at the point at which I need to start clarifying some things and making some decisions that will effect the final outcome of this project and would like some advice.

Now that I have the shell stripped down, I need to think about stripping it. Reading through the "How to paint a show car" tutorial, as much of a wealth of information is in there, it reads like everything from media blasting to spraying epoxy sealer is done in a single day. I can see where that is preferred but the closest reputable media blaster I know of is almost an hour away. Well, so what, you might ask...  Problem is, after reading through that tutorial I'm afraid to leave it in bare metal for more than a few minutes seeing how fast flash rust happens and I live in south Texas. Taking the car to the blaster across town, then waiting for it to get done, having it sit while I get a chance to retrieve it, then drive it back to my shop, get it off the trailer etc, all while trying to avoid "touching" it with my bare oil filled hands.... see where I'm going?

At this point I'm set on dry media blasting, versus dustless, unless there is compelling argument for it. I prefer the dry so there isn't any hidden water remaining behind.

So, I bring it to get blasted "while I wait" if I can arrange that. Just load it onto my trailer on a cart, drive it wherever, get the blasting done and bring it right back to the shop. Now, I have a bare metal (what's left of it) shell and I need to metal prep. How, at this point to I "clean" it to get it ready for metal prep since I just dragged it over the road and who knows what bug splattered itself on my newly blasted firewall? Once clean, I hit the parts I want to protect with a DA and some 150. Easy enough. Then after getting the metal clean (no touching), apply the metal prep (in small) areas. So, dumb question... how small? Are we talking about 1 foot squares or a fender? Can I overlap areas as I progress? The writeup says NO water on bare metal, which sounds great, but how do you do that if you are applying the prep in small areas and rinsing with water?

Ok, lets say I've gotten this far and not tossed myself off the roof of my barn because I messed it all up and need to start over...

At this point, the metal is protected and as I apply the conditioner, it forms the zinc coating. I'm under the impression I could leave it as is for quite a while (not that I want to) or I can immediately apply the epoxy sealer, or come back on day two and do it.

This is where I need to get to, the car stripped, metal prepped, metal conditioned and sealed.

I'd appreciate anyone who's done this to elaborate on this process. If I need to take a few days off of work to do this, so be it. I want to get this right.

One more question. Lets say I have the car sealed with epoxy. Now the metal work begins an invariably bare metal is seen again. Do I just repeat the process on those small areas again? Seems reasonable.

Thanks for any input.

If anyone has any recommendations for media blasting on the east side of San Antonio that will meet by appointment I'd appreciate it.

-=C

[anlauto]

With the body shop I'm currently using, I get the car media blasted and they sit in his shop for months in bare metal as he does all the rust repairs. He only seals areas that he can't get to after, during the repairs, behind quarters, in frame rails etc...

My regular metal guy, Keith Sim insists the cars are in bare metal while in his shop.....and look at the TV shows like Bitchin Rides, their projects are in bare metal all the time 

[Cuda416]

With the body shop I'm currently using, I get the car media blasted and they sit in his shop for months in bare metal as he does all the rust repairs. He only seals areas that he can't get to after, during the repairs, behind quarters, in frame rails etc...

My regular metal guy, Keith Sim insists the cars are in bare metal while in his shop.....and look at the TV shows like Bitchin Rides, their projects are in bare metal all the time 

Thanks, one of the problems I have is humidity in south Texas. There is a LOT of it so I don't want to get it blasted only to have it rust more than it already is. If I was still in Colorado, I wouldn't be worried one bit. I had bare metal items in my garage for years with no problems whatsoever.

[Mr Cuda]

I'd like to ask some questions about your  experience with flash rust. How is it that.bare  metal rusts immediately in south Texas? Is it really that humid outside,  or is your metal building causing problems. Leave the doors open.
I'm near Seattle in the rain and have had bare metal  projects in the shop for years with no haze or fuzz. I have stuff cut off blasted projects in the scrap pile for weeks in the rain with no orange.
Next, I do not advocate using any rust converter or metal prep on blasted metal.
The blasting should have removed all but the deepest pits. Once primed,  those spots could be addressed after the car is encapsulated with epoxy.
  While I do like sanding the outside skin of blasted cars with a da and 80 grit, just to smooth them off, there is no way to adequately sand the inside.   Just blow it  out completely,  and roll it over on the rotisserie to get the media out. It will come out forever.
The epoxy will get under and float the remaining dust to the surface,  which will then be scuffed off with futher work.
Check to see if your blaster offers  plastic or walnut  media.  While not as bad on a convertible,  garnet  with a heavy hand can warp panels.
I have my projects plastic blasted with garnet clean up on structure. I've had too many roofs, hoods and doors warped from to back side being blasted. The garnet can blow through holes and structure,  and when it hits the outside skin, shrink and warp them.
Back to coatings,  metal converter  and everyone's  favorite,  por15, are not to be use on blasted metal.
I'm sure you will post more concerns,  but those are some of my pointers,  and I've blasted and rotisseried many. And yes wear gloves!!

[JS29]

In an area with a lot of humidity freshly blasted metal will flash rust before your eye's. I etch prime as soon at its done. I don't care if there is sand in the primer. I sand it down as I work on it to take care of the grains of sand. And I know the rust won't have a chance to form in the mean time.  Cheap etch primer is fine for this. 

[Mr Cuda]

Tag, you're it. Didn't think you would respond while I was typing.
If humidity  is that much of a problem, get it home and inside immediately and epoxy prime.
With air flowing around the car with fans, the epoxy will encapsulate the surface crystals of iron oxide leaving them inert.  The epoxy will seal under everything sealing the skin.
  And to js29's comment,  etch primer is another product not recommended for blasted metal.  I love etch for straight, and sanded panels. Then primer.
But etch is not to be used under epoxy. 

[anlauto]

We get some pretty humid days up here in the Summer too, but I guess it's nothing like South Texas ?

[Cuda416]

I'd like to ask some questions about your  experience with flash rust. How is it that.bare  metal rusts immediately in south Texas? Is it really that humid outside,  or is your metal building causing problems. Leave the doors open.
I'm near Seattle in the rain and have had bare metal  projects in the shop for years with no haze or fuzz. I have stuff cut off blasted projects in the scrap pile for weeks in the rain with no orange.
Next, I do not advocate using any rust converter or metal prep on blasted metal.
The blasting should have removed all but the deepest pits. Once primed,  those spots could be addressed after the car is encapsulated with epoxy.
  While I do like sanding the outside skin of blasted cars with a da and 80 grit, just to smooth them off, there is no way to adequately sand the inside.   Just blow it  out completely,  and roll it over on the rotisserie to get the media out. It will come out forever.
The epoxy will get under and float the remaining dust to the surface,  which will then be scuffed off with futher work.
Check to see if your blaster offers  plastic or walnut  media.  While not as bad on a convertible,  garnet  with a heavy hand can warp panels.
I have my projects plastic blasted with garnet clean up on structure. I've had too many roofs, hoods and doors warped from to back side being blasted. The garnet can blow through holes and structure,  and when it hits the outside skin, shrink and warp them.
Back to coatings,  metal converter  and everyone's  favorite,  por15, are not to be use on blasted metal.
I'm sure you will post more concerts,  but those are some of my pointers,  and I've blasted and rotisseried many. And yes wear gloves!!

Thanks for the input. I'm not implying things will rust immediately, rather I need to know what is acceptable and how to properly deal with it so I don't end up with problems down the road. If I can get the car blasted to bare metal and have it sit for a few days, that's great. I am just trying avoid making a costly mistake.

I'd ask you now, what the issue would be with metal conditioning products? Seems like a good thing to do, but I'm the monkey in the room here.


-=C