Sheetmetal gurus help me get started

[Jocigar]

Alan, good idea should have done it earlier.  I have a notebook just for my own curiosity now.

up-date,  I spent an hour measuring and fitting and doing hammer and dolly work.   I had to move the crease one side but still not good fit.   

I will make a few slices on the lip in order to get the top curvature to match original quarter.   

More importantly I need to make a 5" long cut on both sides, expand sheetmetal to fit gutter slots and weld them shut with some brass backing.   There is just not enough metal in the stamping to get a good fit.

Curious if anyone else has run into this ?  the stamping drifts mostly at the ends.

[jimynick]

Hmmph, looks like the post I put on yesterday went into the ether. Don't get too carried away looking for the perfect fit here, because just because you get it to fit now, doesn't mean it'll fit the same with the new 1/4 panels. Based on what you're finding working with the new upper body panel, you can bet there'll be issues when you cut the old 1/4's off and mount the new ones. One other thing, you can take a 1/16th" slitter blade and using a scribed line off the old one, cut carefully and lay them right beside each other, which is easier than trying to make a tight metal sandwich, AND it'll do away with a favourite E body crevice for future rusting! In my other message I mentioned fitting hte gutter section as best as possible and slitting the upper edge where the panel drops down to make the rear glass ledge. If you're really good, you can cut about 1/16th over the top of the down edge and that'll give you something that'll hold on the upper edge and aid fitting. You can trim/grind it off later if it moves too much inward. This is kinda technical and I'm not sure my explanations will make sense to you. If not, PM me an email address or phone # and I'll call you and we can talk rather than type the ends off our fingers. Good luck!

[Jocigar]

Thanks for the help!  I agree, as after thought I should not go crazy fitting to original quarter.   I do want to get best fit on gutters since they will remain original.

The fitment issues appear to be at gutter side, the upper edges looks good and line up with quarters window opening.
   
As you mentioned, I plan to use slitter to expand gutter channel on driver side and slitter to expand gutter channel drop on passenger side, then fill the gap with mig while panel is unattached so I can grind for seamless look.

Once Dutchman fit is good, having done as much as i can without trunk floor, maybe I should move on to spot welding floor in place so that the tail panel gets supported ?   that would allow me to start removing one of the quarters for replacement along with extensions and outer wheel well.   How does that sound?   I will send PM, thanks for offering to talk me through it!

[Jocigar]

With the weekend approaching I am hoping to start on one of quarters by then.

Big thanks for the some on the members for taking the time to call me on this project, great community 


I made some adjustments to the dutchman for fitment as discussed.   added another small patch in speaker deck corner then fitted the trunk pan back in and rear cross member.... need more clamps !

Questions:

-do I plug weld the dutchman to speaker deck (see pic) from the outside windshield opening or attempt to do it from underneath?

-there are 3/8 holes in the speaker deck lips (see pic) are those clearance for trim clips?  if so i will need to drill them out on my patch section before attaching dutchman.

-lastly, what order do you suggest in putting these parts back together; plug weld floor to rails first then attach rear crossmember, then plug weld trunk pan lip to tail panel ?     

Should I screw dutchman in place for now so I can adjust to the quarters rather than welding it in place ?     

[Dmod1974]

I wouldn't weld ANYTHING in yet until you have the quarters fit, or you are almost guaranteed to be redoing some of that work to get everything to fit.

The speaker deck holes are indeed for the trim clips.

I welded my filler panel in from the window opening side.  Welding upside down (and especially in that particular area) would absolutely suck.  Avoid at all costs.  You'll be able to make much better welds.  Clean up with a belt file and/or 2" roloc disc.  Done right, you won't even be able to tell where the welds were; not that it matters since it'll be covered by glass and trim.  You really just need to make them reasonably flat and without pinholes.

[jimynick]

Comin' along. lookin' good Joe! Save a little hair to pull out once you're into the 1/4's and remember the secret mantra, "if it doesn't fit, why doesn't it fit and what do I have to do to make it fit?" and you'll be ok. You'll also never look at this car the same way again. It'll be like meeting the Borg- you'll become one. LOL 

[Jocigar]

Thanks for the help, so I should not even weld trunk floor ?   

I thought it would be good to attach trunk floor and crossmember so the tail panel is supported along with gutters.

Guess I will be using a lot of self tapping screws all around instead.

[Dmod1974]

Yup...  Screws and clecos.  Be prepared to fight with the quarter to trunk extension and wheelhouse fit, and as already mentioned, don't expect your decklid filler to fit the same way with the new quarters either.  It'll be a lot easier to get everything in place now than after it's welded in.  Been there, done that.

[Jocigar]

You guys didn't tell me how much fun removing the outer wheelhouse would be 

On the front half its a three layer sandwich under the 1/4 window area.   Should I use spot weld cutter from the inside or outside, or just drill thru all of it and use new wheelwell as backstop and plug weld back in from the inside... maybe that the best option.

[soundcontrol]

Tricky area to fix, I did everything from the wheelhouse side, mine had rust and someone just welded a patch over the rust and undercoated it, removed all rusty layers, and repaired it  and last thing I added the wheelhouse. I didn't exactly duplicate original spotwelds, I welded all edges plus necessary spotwelds.

[jimynick]

"I didn't exactly duplicate original spotwelds, I welded all edges plus necessary spotwelds." LOL, that's because you're a smart man who's been there and done that, and it's a rite of passage for all who seek to follow in your footsteps! It's a large club! Nice repair by the way! 

[Jocigar]

I can't believe the amount of spot welds they put into wheel housing flanges.   removing the old outer was miserable undertaking with spot welds both on inside and outside but got'er done.   

the new one looks like it fits well, based on what i read there are always alignment issues with outer, guess it will come up when i try new quarter on.

[jimynick]

Yep, it sure will. Don't weld-in the otr whlhse until you've fitted the 1/4 to it and all the other places the 1/4 has to fit, as well. Basically, fit the 1/4 to the upper body panel and deck lid and then go chase the wheelhouse fit, because there's only a certain amount of latitude with the 1/4 and there's more with the whlhse. Clecos and screws and vice-grips will be your pals here. 

[Jocigar]

Hi all,    finished making patches and was able to first time fit the quarter which felt good and looks like progress even if its coming off a dozen more times.

I didn't spend a lot of time after putting quarter on but the last picture shows the gap between the wheelhouse and the quarter.   Is this what people say they have trouble with, in fitting the two pieces together?  at first glance it looks like i need to make another slit cut to expand the wheelhouse to meet the quarter at wheel opening?

Also, Body line looks good but I don't have any weights on door 

Thanks !       

[jimynick]

I'd try a couple of small (1/8-3/16") pie shape cuts in that flange of the outer wheelhouse, beside the vicegrips and see if you can roll the panel enough to allow more vicegrips to pull the wheelhouse lip closer to the 1/4 lip. Good job patterning on the end of the rocker, that's the way to go. You'll be a third year apprentice pretty soon! As for the door-1/4 fit, without weight in the door, look at your gap at the bottom door/quarter edge and if it's good the way it is, then just figure on lifting the door enough to come back down to where it is when the weight is on it. You can adjust the door, but you can't adjust the rocker nor 1/4 at that time. Believe it or not, you should be seeing some light at the end of the rust tunnel! Looks pretty good so far!