PINK AAR CUDA

[cudamadd]

At the end of the day it's about the love of the ebody and mopar in general. And I hope we can all learn from each other

[larry4406]

I wish I had made a copy of Ross's build thread before he purged it.  I was planning on using it as my road map for my 71 convertible.

I just printed Mike's bare metal suspension finishing thread to PDF in the event it gets purged.

I just don't understand the logic.  Its like burning libraries.

[Fastmark]

AS usual I can see both sides of this situation -
I agree with Cody that Mike overstepped by contacting & antagonizing moderators at work or home , this is not cool or tolerated & I am sure this makes sense to members here .
On the other side Mike takes restoration to a far higher level & calls a spade a spade like it or not !
Personally I do Not want my reputation tainted by being seen as supporting or endorsing poor or dishonest work by members here either .
I am in no way comfortable supporting or being seen to support Poor workmanship or dishonesty ! I Have also considered deleting my account because of this .
For now I have chosen to stay & help the people I can help in anyway I can either adding content here , sending PMs , phoning you personally or even flying in & doing the work as I have done for many people in the past .
This whole situation makes me very sad as it has done irrepairable damage to this site we have worked so hard to build .

I agree %100. This is supposed to be about the cars. If someone puts out wrong information on these cars, it needs to be corrected. That's one of the reasons new people or those with less knowledge of these cars come on a board like this. If Mike called out a correction, I wager he was %100 correct. And as far as calling out that first incident, that was needed. I knew I guy that was contemplating that particular " expert restorer" until he saw the pictures posted of the work in question. My opinion is that if you think your always correct and perfect, and someone calls you out when you're wrong, you need to be big enough to admit your wrong. To me letting someone continue to post (with the owners consent) that " I'm the greatest" , doesn't speak well for the integrity of the forum. I find myself on this forum less and less these days. Mikes work in pictures posted will be missed. Lots of knowledge down the drain. This is not the only forum that this happens. I have a friend who has been wanting a particular car since he was a kid and rode in his uncles car. Now that he has the money to look, he's joined a forum board asking lots of questions about buying one. One of the guys on the board is giving him poor info and treats his opinions as fact. And he just happens to be a moderator and friends of the administrator. My friend has finally figured this guy is full of crap and is disappointed with the entire forum. We need to keep up the integrity of the forum boards or these will go away. I think the permant ban was not needed but I doubt he will be back.

[76orangewagon]

I just don't understand the logic.  Its like burning libraries.

The logic is quite simple...if you don't want specific people (or group) benefiting from your hard work and extensive research then you take away there reference material, unfortunately for all the other people like yourself and countless others they also loose that material. I am trying to build a very authentic day one car as far as date codes and factory paint daubs/ marks that are specific only to my car,
   I see builds with 4 k frames/suspensions, and they all have exactly the same paint daubs..and then they make fun of someone else's build because there incorrect....news flash Einstein..so are yours they all didn't come with the  same marks in the same location. Another example is my car has silver/aluminum paint marks on the Torsion bars placed at a specific measured distance from the end and are unique to my 778/779 340 bars, I see them being copied on non 778/779 bars and in the wrong location...why ? 
My issue with all of this is other people trying to look for accurate information to add marks to their car and come cross incorrect information and copy it again and the cycle continues.   I realize inspection marks and correct day one builds are not for the majority of people and it may seem damaging or childish to some and to the majority of people I am sorry, you were just collaterral damage. These are just a few more reasons of why I deleted my thread...but like I said earlier I was tired of the subtle jabs and insults trying to be disguised as questions and I got tired of them, regardless of Mike being banned for what he did I had several conversation with him prior to this saying " I'm thinking about deleting my thread or I wish I hadn't got so detailed in it". so this seemed like the perfect opportunity.   

[Chryco Psycho]

I wish I had made a copy of Ross's build thread before he purged it.  I was planning on using it as my road map for my 71 convertible.

I just printed Mike's bare metal suspension finishing thread to PDF in the event it gets purged.

I just don't understand the logic.  Its like burning libraries.

I am sure you can PM orangewagon & get any info you need

[76orangewagon]

HemiCuda (Mike) contacted moderator Spikedog at his place of employment (he tracked down where SpikeDog works) and when SpikeDog wasn't available to talk, HemiCuda (Mike) got SpikeDog's cell phone number and started antagonize him through text messages.  HemiCuda (Mike) crossed a line when he contacted a moderator at work.  It's NEVER okay to mess with a man's income that he needs to provide for his family.  HemiCuda (Mike) brought the online disagreement to SpikeDog's work.  There is no way to justify those actions.  I immediately adjusted the 30 day ban to indefinitely.

I notified HemiCuda (Mike) that his ban will be removed when I have his word that he will not cause any more drama.  At this point the ban is only as long as he wants it to be.  If he gives me his word that he will not cause any drama with any other members or moderators (that includes not contacting people at their place of employment or sending unwanted texts), then the ban can be removed right away.  If I do not have his word, there's no reason to remove the ban. 

As for removing photos or deleting posts, that's 100% on the members that post the photos.  The true intrinsic value of our posts, info and photos is the ability to help others and increase the level of restorations and enjoyment of these cars.  IMO, removing ones own posts is a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction in an effort to purse revenge that actually damages oneself more than who they might be angered at.  Removing posts and photos only strengthens the person that they believe to be their competition by, removing competition.  If there's no photos and posts from members who think they can do better, then new members only see what is posted.

  Well ....if you would have PM'd me the initial way your administrator contacted Mike our Converstaion would have gone totally diffrent and I would not have stayed on here at all. I would think as an administrator reaching out to resolve an issue with members you would not say thinks like " I dont give a F**K who you are, Who the F**K Eric is,  This F**king S**T ...stops...ect,  does not set a positive tone to have a professional discussion especially for someone in the Real estate business who deal with customers.
  As far as your opinion of me being needlessly self destructive and over reactiting to seek revenge....Wrong, it was a great oportunity to carry out something that I wish I never got so detailed into. If this Democratic idealogy of play nice and don't call out the self promoting snake oil members who mislead others is the standard then this isn't the place I should have had been investing my time in posting my build. throw in the main fact that my build progress posts were met with hidden criticism disguised as helpful hints was really why I took my build down. It wasn't because of one person, it was also the band of Canadian Kool aid drinkers, you know the actual 4 or 5 that complained about Mike (Not the 18 you quoted)
 

 

[76orangewagon]

I wish I had made a copy of Ross's build thread before he purged it.  I was planning on using it as my road map for my 71 convertible.

I just printed Mike's bare metal suspension finishing thread to PDF in the event it gets purged.

I just don't understand the logic.  Its like burning libraries.

I would be glad to help you or anyone out, PM me if you need something.

[ErikR]

Nothing I won't say to your face also Cody at some point.

Your play nice BS is nonsense for someone claiming to be a Mopar guy.
Not calling Alan out for ripping me off and promoting this clown on your site is pathetic. Many guys are wise to this and now you kicked out Mike for relentlessly calling BS when he reads it on your site.

Let's review:

Mike: friends with EVERYONE in the hobby and respected for his knowledge and talent by all the top shelf MOAPR restoration guys.

Alan: ENEMIES with many of the top-level Mopar restorers. Simply cannot deal with certain vendors and knowledgeable guys in this small, tight-knit Mopar hobby because they hate this guy for well-established reasons.

Cody - you are getting rightfully called out for your circle jerk BS and good guys are leaving.
I did not plan to logon ever again but it was no surprise to hear that Ross, Neil and others finally had enough also and are bailing out also, and I'm really glad other guys are letting you hear that same message loud and clear.

[cuda hunter]

I have not seen Cody "promote" Alan ever.  Much less Mike. 
He is here to really just keep the peace.  he'll always be caught in the middle of any drama on the site as he wants to nix it. 

Just my observation.  I've read all the posts and firmly disagree with the "promote" phrase. 

I believe he promotes the enjoyment of this hobby. 

This is a forum site after all.  There's gonna be pricks.  I've learned to just blown em off my shoulder and don't let them bother me. 
Pretty much, if all yal who know the ins and outs and are not wrong on restorations just up and leave then the people who are wrong have just won.  And they will teach us who are not in the know the wrong things.   

I'm just into this for the joy of the ride and the hobby. I don't have money like most of yal on here.  It's seems very unfortunate to see all this play out in the way it has. I just want to learn from all of you so that maybe one day I will have enough cash to throw at a car like yal I will know what is right and wrong. 

[RUNCHARGER]

This is a great site and this was an unfortunate situation that I would rather not comment on. I like Mike and love his work but he was riding the mission into the ground. Alan is a member here but I in no way ever seen the "site" promoting him so I don't know why people are tying Alan to the site.
Let's talk about E-bodies please and no one is the E-body god who is above everybody else. I have no time for Ego's and there's lots of them in any hobby.
Cody: Great site, keep it up.
To all the others: Life ain't perfect, suck it up.

[JH27N0B]

It is sad this issue keeps rearing its ugly head and has caused bad feelings.  But I am frustrated that we members get caught in the middle and get accused of taking sides, and crapped on if we don't join someone's "crusade".
Hey, we get it, I certainly get it.  I had a bad experience with my restoration, and I've spent thousands of dollars trying to get things corrected.  And more to go. On a car I've owned 40 years since I bought it at 16 so a lot of sentimental value on it, I was committed to getting it done right and got let down. So yeah, I totally get it.
But I didn't just fall off a turnip truck yesterday, so I'm not so naive to think that if I started going on sites ripping on the shop I had issues with, everyone would join me in my protest and the shop would see the light and refund me my money or give me a blank check to take it to the shop of my choice to get the car redone.  I got screwed and I'm bitter but I'm not going to win any friends trying to recruit the world to join me in my bitterness. No one wants to get caught up in my problems either, I understand that and will not have a temper tantrum because of that.
I enjoy being a member here, and sorry some good people have left, and also sorry I'm not the only person ever screwed on an expensive restoration, but please just leave the rest of us alone so we can continue on and not have a great site get ruined.

[dodj]

I have not noticed ANY restoration shop being promoted here?

I do enjoy seeing the pictures of the work done by shops and restoration services that participate here though.

[usraptor]

First of all I do not know Cody, Alan, Chryco, Mike, Erik or any of the other great people who both participate and contribute to making this the best E-body Mopar site on the web, IMHO.  I left CC.com when Cody started this website for the exact reasons several of you are complaining about now regarding people backstabbing each other and being cliquish and supporting one side over the other.  As an amateur home garage restorer in every sense of the word, I have received valuable help and information regarding the restoration of my '70 'Cuda over the past several years, which except for some minor details, is now done.  This advise has come from Cody, Alan, Chryco, and numerous others, none of which with the possible exception of Cody, I would recognize if they walked right up to me in public.  Everybody to a fault has been more than willing to help and has never made me feel stupid for some of the admittedly dumb ass questions I have asked and or for the dumb ass mistakes I have made.  Consequently, I promote and recommend this site all the time because of the friendly, helpful atmosphere here and everybody's willingness to help and I also try to help others with questions, requests for pictures and requests for parts to the best of my limited abilities. 

I have never seen Cody play favorites with members and I have also never seen him or others on this site promote Alan's restoration work/shop.  I have no personal knowledge about the quality of Alan's work as I have never seen one of his restorations in person.  As others on this site, I have only viewed the pictures of his work and judging strictly from the pictures it appears to me that he does good work. He also freely admits that he is not a paint and body man and sends some of his customers parts out for restoration.  But just as I'm sure he has several satisfied customers, I'm also sure that he has some that are not, just as most restorations shops do, including I'm sure Mikes.  That being said, during my tenure on this site since it was created, I have never seen or read anything written by Alan suggesting in any manner that he thinks that he is god's gift to restorers nor that he never makes a mistake.  In fact on several occasions, I have seen him respond when asked a question that he "doesn't know" or "I learn something new all the time or every day" or words to that effect when viewing someone else's post response.

Cody, Spikedog and others do an admirable job of being moderators on this site and trying to make everybody comply with the rules and keep this a friendly, welcoming site and I respect not only that they are willing to do that but also the numerous hours I'm sure that they put in to do so.  As President Lincoln stated, "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time".  That's a fact of life I have learned many times over in my 72 years on this earth, especially during my 36 years as a LEO. 

Personally, I have no idea what the history is between Mike and Alan and quite frankly I don't care.  But as a few of you have stated, the fact that "Mike calls a spade a spade"  or "calls BS" when he sees it is no excuse for being rude, condescending or argumentative with Alan or anybody else for that matter.  It's also no excuse for him to call and dog and harass Spikedog at this place of business.  As Cody stated that is totally uncalled for and I support Cody 100% in his decision to make Mike's ban from the site indefinite.  And as I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not the first time Mike has been warned about his antagonistic responses on the web-site. You can point out incorrect or misleading information information posted in a constructive, courteous manner as numerous others on this site have done, including Alan, without name calling, being antagonistic or exhibiting an "I'm God's Gift to Restorers" attitude such as Mike has done on numerous occasions.  It's called having social skills.

76orangewagon I have really enjoyed following and admiring the restoration of your car by both Mike and yourself.  But if you think for a moment that a small group of Canadians "drank the kool aid" and are the only ones who complained about Mike's pointed and mean spirited attacks on Alan, you are incorrect.  I live in the lower 48 and I'm one of those 18 people who complained to the moderators after the last attack Mike directed at Alan, often putting words or opinions into Alan's mouth that he did not even state. I ignored it as long as I could, but after his last snipe at Alan, I just had to speak up and let the moderators know that I personally didn't appreciate Mike's antagonistic remarks directed at Alan and others and that I felt like a hyporate telling all the newbies to the site what a "friendly" and helpful site we had here.  It's really hard to tell newbies to the site what a friendly and helpful site it is when Mike often spouts off with antagonistic and derogatory comments about other members. It would make me, if I was new to the site, not only wonder what was going on but also very hesitant to ask a question in fear that somebody would bite my head off.

As others have stated, I would hate to see either you or Mike leave the site.  We are an internet family here and sometimes disagree.  However, there is a right and wrong way to disagree.  I have learned a lot from both you and Mike and admire both off your's restoration skills as I'm sure others also do.  I would think as a friend to Mike, you might have a heart to heart talk with him about his negative and antagonistic attitude towards others when dealing with people he disagrees with and developing better social skills about how to provide constructive criticism when somebody else posts incorrect information or what Mike believes or even knows to be incorrect.

Now, can we all please all put this behind us and get back to restoring our cars and helping each other and continuing to making this the "friendliest E-Body" forum on the net? 

[dodj]

 
usraptor, I don't think I could have said it any better.

I also 100% agree with the sentiment of not wanting Mike to leave the site. The guy knows his $h!t.
But..if you can't play nice in the sandbox....

Ross, I guess I completely missread you.
Thought you posted up all those awesome pics for the benefit of everyone. But then delete them all. I dunno. Guess I'm a little confused. The best car I've ever watched being restored. I'm guessing a pretty good plug for Mike's services....but in the end , hide it from everybody.

[mike ketterer]

well that sucks that mike got banned. he,s an awsome  person and a great person to deal with. i like the fact that he calls it like it is. i think the original issue maybe should have been corrected. not taking sides but sometimes a person needs to correct the problem even if it costs you some time or money. yes cody this is a great site but mike shouldnt have been banned. my opinion if thats allowed